I never really trusted Bill Clinton (for similar reasons as to why I didn't trust John Edwards - phoniness), but I did usually trust Hillary, from her earliest days in the public eye. Other than the 2007-2008 campaign, which was just a mess, I always trusted her. I'm just sorry it ended the way it did. Clearly there is some demand for her in the public eye, as even now people are trying to get her to run for the highest-profile mayoral job in America. But any time she actually steps up, everyone can't wait to slam her back down. 

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I think one of the things that hurt her was that I'm not even sure the woman in those interviews was the real Hillary. That was a woman who was pushed into overdrive because she had to ignore her own voice to defend her husband over his sleazy behavior.

 

Actually, the "I'm not Tammy Wynette!" comment came before the Monicagate interviews, while Bill was running for his first term.  In fact, that might have been our very introduction to the woman on the national stage.

 

But you are right in that the Monicagate interview put her in the most awkward position (after Monica).

 

One of the women interviewed in that NYT piece about female Trump voters said she couldn't understand why Hillary stayed with Bill after he had cheated on her.  "Yeah, right," I said, "and if she had left him, you would have wanted someone to place a scarlet 'D' on her chest for 'Divorcee'."

 

Lord knows I'm gonna catch hell for saying this, but should Bill kick off before Hillary runs again for any political office, she might have a better shot at winning.  Death tends to boost a person's image, y'know?  So people might develop a better perception of Bill and his presidency if and when he goes; and then Hillary could milk the grieving-widow-who-wants-to-restore-her-late-husband's-legacy act for all its worth.

Edited January 19, 20178 yr by Khan

Hillary did good work as SoS. It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't terrible either.

Just now, Khan said:

 

Actually, the "I'm not Tammy Wynette!" comment came before the Monicagate interviews, while Bill was running for his first term.  In fact, that might have been our very introduction to the woman on the national stage.

 

Yeah, that was the Gennifer Flowers interview. 

 

Here's the article, if people didn't get to read it:

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-2016-60-minutes-1992-214275

8 minutes ago, Vee said:

Hillary did good work as SoS. It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't terrible either.

 

But the e-mails, Vee.  The e-mails.

8 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Yeah, that was the Gennifer Flowers interview. 

 

Here's the article, if people didn't get to read it:

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-2016-60-minutes-1992-214275

 

Oops.  My mistake.

Did you mean the "vast right wing conspiracy" interview? I do think that probably hurt her too, although by that time she'd become better at the game. It's too bad she had to do cleanup duty all over again, but I remember at the time, even though I wasn't as political as I later became, I thought it was a breath of fresh air and I was so glad someone - the First Lady of all people - finally said it out loud. 

Edited January 19, 20178 yr by DRW50

Hillary has had to spend the better part of her marriage cleaning up Bill's messes.  That alone should win her the Nobel Peace Prize, the Medal of Freedom and the Profiles in Courage award.

Edited January 19, 20178 yr by Khan

I think Hillary hate comes down to sexism as a lot of the hatred of Obama came down to racism. I mean, for all of the good Hillary did as SoS and First Lady, I think the "Old Guard" was appalled that Hillary Clinton dared to upset the apple cart vision of the quiet little wifey who wears pearls and smiles like a Stepford Robot next to hubby. And, for whatever reason, her mistakes as SoS gave these folks the excuse of "evil" Hillary. Then, naturally, comes the "why didn't she leave Bill?!" schtick.

 

The only thing is, and this is not meant as a defense of Bill Clinton, but...this couple was not the first to go through the infidelity follies found in the White House. JFK and Jackie's "Camelot" image was obviously a sham. JFK was a hound. (I do think those two - in a warped maybe unhealthy way, did have a sort of love/respect for each other, though.) Even freaking FDR was rumored to have stepped out on Eleanor. Yet these two couples are still, by and large, revered, even knowing the truth now. Bill and Hillary? Not so much.

 

So I think that part of the anti-Hillary bias was just an excuse. And Hillary was hated because she is a strong woman. And many can talk the talk of wanting that. But put words into action, and it's a different story. The saying goes, "Haters gonna hate!" But it does become problematic when that hate blinds people to the other monster in the room. But that one spouted all sorts of xenophobic jabs and made empty promises. And now...he's being sworn in on Friday, much to my eternal embarrassment. And so it goes.

So, it seems that Tony Orlando is set to perform at one of the inauguration balls.

 

Unfortunately, Dawn will be unable to appear, due to their prior commitment with the Women's march.

 

But seriously.  You have Toby Keith and his mullet on the one hand, and Tony Orlando (without Dawn) and Paul Anka on the other (with 3 Doors Down in the middle, probably because there's no one else to draw in the youngsters).  Even if I were a Republican, I'd still feel embarrassed as hell about this lineup for the inauguration festivities.

Edited January 19, 20178 yr by Khan

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/democrats-trump-administration-wilderness-comeback-revival-214650

7 hours ago, Vee said:

I think you can see the real Hillary when she talks to people one on one. Most of that doesn't end up on TV, or is caught by accident. I don't think it's that far removed from the Hillary we see in the public eye, but speeches have never been her forte. I just don't think there's that intense a divide. I don't think people have ever given her humanity enough credit. She wouldn't be just a wife, so people decided to make her into a thing.

 

We have a retired Army soldier living across the street from us.  She served in Desert Storm and Hillary came by to visit the troops and she talked to her.  She was a fan of HRC ever since.  She said exactly what you mention above, that was compassionate, warm and friendly during that one on one.  She even has a picture of her and HRC.  

 

One of the best speeches of her career was when The Orange Menace hired Bannon to his campaign, and Hillary spoke to his character and what Breitbart stood for.  I really thought that speech would seal things up for her.  Come to find out, people are OK with a racist running a campaign.  Sigh.

 

 

So Anonymous issued a threat claiming that Trump would regret the next 4 years? WTH were they during the campaign? Always a day late and a dollar short.

 

Well, HRC was my Senator when I lived in NY and I'll just say there is a reason why she won NY over Trump who is a NYer by birth. When she first announced her bid to run for Senate, many people were skeptical. Many in upstate areas referred to her derisively as a 'carpetbagger'.  Words that were often used during her presidential run like "arrogant" were used to describe her even back then, until Hillary started canvassing the state on a "Listening Tour" going to rural, suburban, exurban as well as NYC. She eventually won many skeptical upstaters over and impressed cynical city dwellers alike.  

Similarly, her debate skills (although a bit less refined) encompassed her getting her point across, while allowing her Republican opponent Rick Lazio (a whole lot more photogenic than Trump) trip over his own words.

 

When she won the Senate seat, people again assumed things about her-- that she was going to be utterly combative with Republicans, instead she was known to "put her head down and go to work" with colleagues on passing actual common-sense legislation.

 

It amazes me though that those old stereotypes and assumptions came back to haunt her in her Presidential bids. The first time, you could understand it- she faced a highly charismatic, once in a lifetime type candidate but this time she was clearly the better prospect but many voters preferred a compulsive liar with tons of conflicts of interests and likely, hidden/dark, links to white supremacists, a history of discrimination, lawsuits everywhere he goes and connections to crooks  to that woman.

Edited January 19, 20178 yr by DramatistDreamer

People were always going to vote for "Don the Con," because having a woman succeed a Black man as the leader of the free world was more change than the Barry Goldwaters and Phyllis Schlaflys could handle.  Heck, even Black men couldn't get excited enough about Hillary to turn out for her like they had for Obama, because of the messy dynamic that has always existed between them and white women.  (I certainly saw that dynamic firsthand at my elementary school, which was run exclusively by middle-aged white women who struggled in relating to Black students and their parents.)  I think all that would have been true even if Hillary had been the second coming of Etta Plum.

 

As a mild Bernie supporter, though, I must admit that Hillary's third biggest liability, after her history and her not reaching out more to the Rust Belt voters, was having voters from within her own party reject her even after Bernie basically had to swallow his pride and urge them to.  They were just too pissed about not getting their free tuition and legal weed, as marceline would say, so they resorted to throwing away their votes out of spite.

Edited January 19, 20178 yr by Khan

2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

So Anonymous issued a threat claiming that Trump would regret the next 4 years? WTH were they during the campaign? Always a day late and a dollar short.

 

When has Anonymous ever done anything helpful? They love to issue threats but usually all that happens is they end up doxxing some innocent person. I remember when they said they were going to release the names of legislators with ties to the Klan. One of them ended up being a Hispanic woman.

 

Frankly the fact that hackers and leakers have decided they can set our national agenda is part of what brought us Trump.

 

20 minutes ago, Khan said:

As a mild Bernie supporter, though, I must admit that Hillary's third biggest liability, after her history and her not reaching out more to the Rust Belt voters, was having voters from within her own party reject her even after Bernie basically had to eat crow and urge them to.  They were just too pissed about not getting their free tuition and legal weed, as marceline would say, so they resorted to throwing away their votes out of spite.

 

I had a Bernie supporter I was fighting with online yesterday tell me "Bernie was fighting for YOU!" All I could say was "If this is the result of Bernie fighting for me then please tell me how to make him stop before someone burns a cross on my lawn."

Edited January 19, 20178 yr by marceline

Hillary got on board with free tuition though. It wasn't an idea I was sure could work, but she went with it. The same with a $15 minimum wage, when she originally wanted $12.  I'm not sure how many Bernie supporters really refused to vote for Hillary, but for the ones who did, I just don't understand the thinking. Well, except for the Bernie Bros. I understand that thinking all too well.