Members DramatistDreamer Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) This is very unsettling any way you look at it. The fact that it is uncorroborated yet cannot be dismissed because the person who gathered this information is not just any hack (pardon the pun) but a highly regarded former M1-6 officer with extensive experience and particular expertise in Russia. Honestly, these feels worse than when Bush got into office. Of course, I had no idea of the tragedy to come then but now knowing what can happen when incompetence takes office, this just stirs a wave of thoughts and emotions to the fore, none of them good. Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet and I'm already weary of him and the possibilities of what's to come. It's not just this latest scandal, it's the way this man conducts himself, his aura, his entire demeanor. Trash, sorry but no other word comes to mind. Trash. Hopefully I can have a change of mindset and summon some strength to gird myself in the future for the resistance. Right now though, this feels like a drain. Edited January 11, 2017 by DramatistDreamer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chris B Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 I'm sure some of the Trump report isn't true, but we have to know a good amount of it was. They wouldn't have presented it to Trump and Obama had it not been. I feel like everything with Trump is going to be like an onion and we will continue peeling the layers. We all knew he had ties to Russia, this isn't news. Siding with them over everybody was puzzling to some but it makes sense considering. I'm sure this won't end well for him we just need to wait for them to finish unraveling and verifying this story. Many have compared Trump to The Manchurian Candidate, but this is truly a storyline lifted out of 24! By that I mean that it's so outlandish it can't be true, but everytime we think that Trump surprises us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 It was not puzzling to me mostly because I saw most of it as ego-feeding. I still think it is, to be honest. I wouldn't be surprised if some is blackmail, but I also think a lot of people want and need it to be that complicated because they need to convince themselves that the Russians ruined everything for them and Hillary would have won otherwise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chris B Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 Hillary would've always had a tough go of it, but I do think Russia is very much responsible by her loss and unpopularity. People say she was unlikable, but I think that is mostly the press and done for many reasons but primarily because she's a woman which has always been her biggest hurdle. The very real negative stories that DID leak about Trump I feel would've been enough to bury him had it not been for Wikileaks and that was Russia. Every day the press was reporting on yet another new story from Wikileaks. There is no doubt the email scandal hurt her, but that daily negative campaign from Russia, always perfectly designed to distract from the latest Trump scandal is what I feel gave him the win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marceline Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 It really is exhausting. The sheer act of countering the propaganda and lies seems unsurmountable. Especially when you realize how aggressively ignorant so many of our fellow Americans are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Oh, the irony. Agree. With all due respect, Carl, what else can we do (but tell jokes)? We know we're fucked. We know there's nothing we can do to extricate ourselves from this mess or change Trump Nation's minds. We HAVE to look for the humor if only to remain sane. Otherwise, we might as well follow Blanche Deveraux's lead, slip into a hot tub, and pop open a vein. Edited January 11, 2017 by Khan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 There's certainly nothing wrong with gallows humor, but in this case the focus on that type of material just takes away from the seriousness of the matter. I don't mean here, per se, or on ever-worthless Twitter, but in pop culture at large, including our alleged "press." One of the biggest mistakes Ken Starr or whoever made the decision made with Bill Clinton's impeachment was releasing so many graphic details to the public, likely assuming this would turn the tides. Instead it was so tawdry and so ridiculous that it became easier for everyone to ignore the dangers in what he did because they could just joke about stains on a dress and a cigar up the hooha. The decision to release details that may not even be true about things like "golden showers" could very easily make the same thing happen here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Ah, I see your point. On the one hand, Carl, I agree with you. We don't NEED to know what Clinton likes to do with his cigars or what Trump (allegedly) enjoys doing on hotel room sheets, because 1) it's really no one's business, 2) it serves only to desensitize and distract us from the REAL issues at hand. Ergo, you COULD exercise some restraint when it comes to disseminating information to the media and the public. However, exercising restraint and such works only up to a point. After that, people will inevitably read your discretion as deception and demand disclosure of all facts, no matter how tawdry. That's when you have to go on ahead and tell 'em about Monica's dress and Trump's curious way of reenacting Gene Kelly's solo from "Singin' in the Rain" (...allegedly). Edited January 11, 2017 by Khan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 I agree. If they had more confidence in their material I'd agree even more, but releasing it and pretty much saying, "Some of this is BS and we can't actually tell you anything is accurate...but we're doing it anyway because it's our duty!" makes me extremely wary. Not just for this but also for the precedent it sets. I'd like to believe this will lead to, at the very least, real checks and balances on Trump by our nightmare of a Congress, but they'd probably just stay quiet as long as he promises to make all the "bad" people (anyone who isn't a rich white man) suffer even more than they already will. I also wonder if this last year has been so draining and traumatizing that the average person just tunes it all out now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JaneAusten Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 So John McCain has come out and said he was in possession of that information and turned it over to the FBI last year. If the MI-6 agent is a well respected former official - an expert on Russia, how hard could it be for the FBI to substantiate a lot of what the report contained. Especially the part about Trump's attorney meeting with RIA officials in Prague last year. TO me that would have been one of the easiest items to verify. There were reports last year that foreign intelligence services were all wary of Trump due to his pro Russia stance and were suspicious as to whether Putin had anything on Trump, as that's his tactic, so there were varied intelligence agencies around the world who were putting effort in to discover if anything was there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 I'm trying to remember if McCain supported Trump. I know he was critical of him but I don't remember him ever taking a strong stand once the general election came along. Well that's about what I expect from him... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NothinButAttitude Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 He did throw his support behind Trump nearing election day, which boggled many seeing as Trump smeared him time and time again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragonflies Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DramatistDreamer Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Nobody actually ever "released" this information to the general public. It was leaked (and most likely with a pointed purpose), which actually makes a difference. ETA: I missed the press conference today. After such a late night and early rising this morning, I couldn't imagine trying to actively seek a livestream to listen to all of that! Nope. Edited January 11, 2017 by DramatistDreamer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted January 11, 2017 Members Share Posted January 11, 2017 If that's the case the sloppy way this was handled is even more baffling to me. Then again after Comey I shouldn't be surprised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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