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The Politics Thread

Toups
in Off Topic Lounge

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9 minutes ago, I Am A Swede said:

I can hardly believe this is happening in a supposedly civilised country in 2018. Where the hell is this world heading?!   :angry:

 

To our next 911, with one or more of these kids taking out their (very justified!) hatred for what was done to them and their families on the US. And, no, I DO NOT subscribe that these immigrants are violent now. But Trump and his sewer rats are cultivating that hate with their inhumane policies.

Edited by Wendy

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    17 minutes ago, I Am A Swede said:

    I can hardly believe this is happening in a supposedly civilised country in 2018. Where the hell is this world heading?!   :angry:

    I have some hope that there are enough people standing against this policy to stop it.  Hopefully, Trump has finally gone one step too far.  Even if we win this fight we have to remember that 27% of Americans agree with this policy, which is shameful and even worse than I imagined.

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    I think the public outcry is almost as heartening as the crimes themselves are disheartening. But we just have to keep the pressure on, as we did last January when they tried this shít at the airports.

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    We're having some political turmoil here as well. We have a general election this year and in several polls the Swedish Democrats, a party with their roots in neo-nazism, has been the second largest party with 20%. It's frightening.

    Just recently one of their top representatives, who is also the vice speaker in our parliament, said that the Sami people (our equivalent to the aborigines and native Americans) and the Jews are not Swedish. Statements like this is frighteningly similar to what the nazis said during the 30s. He has tried to back-track, but it clearly shows that despite their efforts to make themselves more mainstream, their true colours are barely hidden beneath the surface.

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    One consequence being ignored is that Republicans love to talk about MS-13 as a boogeyman. MS-13 couldn't ask for a better recruitment strategy than an entire generation of Latinx kids being traumatized. They will hate this country forever and gangs will be able to scoop them right up.

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    Jesus Christ:

    Sarah Sanders is her usual graceful self:

     

     

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    I can't listen to that audio of children crying for their parents.  I can barely make it through the day now and this isn't a time to break.  I'm glad it exists though.

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    2 hours ago, Juliajms said:

    I can't listen to that audio of children crying for their parents.  I can barely make it through the day now and this isn't a time to break.  I'm glad it exists though.

     

    I made it 90 seconds in.

     

    How many other atrocities happened in this countries history where no one could hear the cries?

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    4 hours ago, Wendy said:

    To our next 911, with one or more of these kids taking out their (very justified!) hatred for what was done to them and their families on the US. And, no, I DO NOT subscribe that these immigrants are violent now. But Trump and his sewer rats are cultivating that hate with their inhumane policies.

     

    The hate is cultivated with or without these policies, based on generations of mistakes and people using immigration as a political football and not actually caring about helping immigrants. Even all the bluster we're seeing now from many in power is likely more about how disgusting Trump is and how blatant his abuse of immigrants is than about actually wanting to help anyone. As soon as this story dies down, and the worst of the ugliness fades from memory, people will move on, just like with the Abu Ghraib stuff in 2004, which was also supposed to be a watershed moment. 

     

    The 'civilized' countries of the world, while certainly doing a better job than we are at the moment, are also struggling to know what to do and I wish the media would not just glibly give statistics like they are about Germany. Paranoia and anger over migrants helped stall out Merkel forming a new government and that government is now on the verge of collapse for the same reasons. Yet all we're hearing is "lowest crime rate since (fill in the blank)."

     

    I just hope when Trump and his dead-eyed VP have retired, or lose, or whatever, people in power actually try to do something about this issue, because this has been building for a long time. 

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    We can make as many strides as we want - we have before. It's not going to begin to really stop until the last generation dies off and stops cultivating it. And even then it's a long road.

     

    I don't think people forgot about Abu Ghraib. I just think the dominant constituency are the same people who never cared - old and young.

    Edited by Vee

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    12 minutes ago, Vee said:

    We can make as many strides as we want - we have before. It's not going to begin to really stop until the last generation dies off and stops cultivating it. And even then it's a long road.

     

    I don't think people forgot about Abu Ghraib. I just think the dominant constituency are the same people who never cared - old and young.

     

    I think the people who were upset remained upset, but many were momentarily upset and went back to their business (and either didn't vote or voted GOP). I assume the same will happen here. Social media makes it more difficult to shake off but social media also turns to other topics and turns on itself in the blink of an eye. I saw a bunch of tweets earlier with Ron Perlman asking people to identify whether someone working for ICE had a Nazi tattoo. I don't even know what people are supposed to do with that or how it's going to actually help anyone. It's the same navel-gazing rabbit holes that keep consuming many who should know better.

     

    As awful as Sarah Sanders and her droning voice are I'm glad she did point out that all this started with W. Karl Rove tried to play games about immigration, completely clueless as to the simmering tensions of the base on this topic. Something ugly was unleashed when their fantasy plans to pass "comprehensive immigration reform" went down in flames, and it has steadily consumed the GOP, including the people that we were told and told and told by the press were supposed to be "sensible" or "moderate" conservatives, like Romney, Rubio and McCain.

     

    I have a feeling the same policies will still be there, in one form or another, after Trump. I hope they won't, but I just feel like so many, outside of activists, are going through the motions on this topic. 

    Edited by DRW50

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    Well, social media can be very maddening (and deadening). But at the same time good can sometimes be found from examining details and shining a light. If an ICE agent can be outed as a neo-Nazi, does it really matter if someone was posturing as part of that effort?

     

    Some behavior is performative for a lot of people, but ultimately I think the visibility in situations like these is better than a lack thereof. If we'd had social media 18 years ago who knows where we'd be.

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