The Politics Thread

[DRW50]

I've seen people saying over and over that Congress has the power to strip Trump of his trade war tactics. They are just too gutless to do so. 

 

The saddest part is the people who are affected by the retaliatory measures from the EU, Canada and Mexico will still support Trump. 

 

I did see a tweet "crediting" Kim Kardashian for that vile D'Souza's pardon, which was funnier than any actual political humor I've seen lately.

[sivad40]

Any comments on the Samantha Bee controversy? She called Ivanka a feckless [!@#$%^&*] and conservatives are calling for TBS to pull her show like ABC did Roseanne's. An eye for an eye.

[Khan]

 

Yep.

 

You know, I would understand if we Black men and women got together one afternoon and decided never to run for president again.  I really would.

 

 

I agree that Samantha Bee crossed a line, and I am glad she apologized for her error, too.  However, calling Ivanka, or any woman, a c**t, while odious, is not the same as suggesting an African-American descended directly from an ape.  One is racist, the other is misogynistic.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Khan

[Juliajms]

I certainly understand on an individual level why a person would not want to put their family through the racism, especially someone with underage children. I think what it really shows is that in the internet age a person has to have some serious ambition to do it.

 

I agree with you that what Roseanne did and what Samantha Bee did is different.  Maybe because Samantha is also a woman. I see using the C word as self hating and dehumanizing, but it's simply more forgivable.  It's not because it was used against Ivanka either.

[DramatistDreamer]

Does starting a trade war with Canada sound as ridiculous to others as it sounds to me?

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[DRW50]

I think Bee and Roseanne have different platforms and I do think that there are valid reasons why people were more angry over Roseanne. 

 

With that said, I think the people who twisted themselves into knots trying to defend calling Ivanka a c*** by saying things like "What about Trump" or "What about Ted Nugent" and so on are just giving even more ground to the worst of the far right, as they are pretty much saying that they are no better.

 

Ivanka has done a lot to deserve criticism, and I've seen many people criticize her justifiably, based on her actions. Unfortunately, there is often a smugness and underlying misogyny in the way that the women in the administration are talked about, and eventually it bursts right into the open. There's also an obvious need for many on the left, like Samantha Bee, to be the king or queen of their bubble, no longer knowing or caring how anyone outside of said bubble will react. It's the same thing that happened to Kathy Griffin (although in her case I think it was more about wanting publicity than about politics). 

 

I've always thought Samantha Bee was very crass, has clunky delivery, and is wildly overrated, and like many of the newer Comedy Central comedians, gets by more based on people knowing she really really hates Trump than on her talent. If her likely being forced to apologize after yet more tedious incest jokes and yet more generic crassness means any form of comedy beyond poopy diaper jokes takes more prominence, I'll be glad. Not that I think it will happen.

 

I've always been confused about why liberals adore her anyway:

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/schooled/2016/06/17/the_upper_west_side_is_new_york_s_latest_school_integration_battleground.html

 

Anyway, we've heard all about the indecision and peacocking in the White House and the usual hands-in-the-air worthlessness of Congress regarding trade. Here's a bit on the actual businesses that will be affected:

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/31/trump-trade-war-effects-581461

Edited June 1, 2018 by DRW50

[Vee]

I like Samantha Bee a lot but I thought I was in some sort of bizarre dream state when I saw that bit. "Did she just do that on TBS??"

 

I feel similarly about Ivanka Trump, don't get me wrong - but it's just not the look you want to lead with a day after Roseannegate. They are different words, but the way it will be handled is obvious. It was totally unnecessary and changes the media cycle, and allows the media to try to gun for Beltway Both Sides (I think some in the media may play that card in the neverending quest for 'balance' - not all). It was a very foolish, unforced error. That said, I like her and I hope she doesn't lose her show.

 

I've recovered some - not all - of my old fondness for Kathy Griffin because she's been candid about having done stupid shít lately, and has worked hard to talk about substantive stuff recently. That said she also did a very stupid thing. Did she deserve how she got treated? No, but she still kind of invited some of it, if that makes sense. Don't go on TV and caterwaul, "he broke me!" (She admits that was a huge blunder, at least)

 

More than anything, though, I think the one-two punch of Roseanne/Bee back to back in the same week - ape, c**t - shows just how far we've been divided as a country in the open and to what ludicrous histrionic extremes even public personalities will go to without taking a breath and having any kind of clarity or common sense. Imagine this kind of TV news cycle even two years ago. Just try it. I can't. It's a long, hard way down and we'll have a hell of a time pulling back up.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Vee

[Juliajms]

This is where SamB did herself no favors.  She said something foolish (but I won't say incorrect) at just the wrong moment and now she's being associated and compared with Roseanne.  Roseanne has a pretty long history of racist tweets, so that's one difference.  I would also argue that while Roseanne was impaired (by drugs and /or mental illness) she said what was really in her heart.  You don't keep saying these things if you don't believe them on some level.

 

I would argue SamB doesn't see the C word the way some of us do.  I've never seen her show, so that's just a guess.  It sometimes amazes me the way that word just rolls off some women's tongues.  Of course, what Roseanne said was actually misogynistic as well as racist. Her alt right crowd knows that calling AA women apes is a way to attack their femininity, which is one of the reason they do it. 

[DRW50]

 

Considering this is a man who put a line in the Avengers where Loki basically called Black Widow a c***, I can't say I'm surprised. 

[marceline]

I'll be the outlier. I'm completely Team Sam. I'm glad she said it. For one moment someone on the left showed the rage I feel at this nightmare. Then of course, the Lefty Superiority Olympics started with the "we have to be better than them" and the "we go high" nonsense which has just become an excuse for timidity in the face of horror.  

[Khan]

 

ICAM.

 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Joss is the kind of feminist who's a feminist because it helps him score better with women.  His views on feminism are about as genuine as the vampires and other supernatural creatures he built his career upon.  Unfortunately, it feels like it's been eons since his ex-wife's charges against him and revelations of his infidelity were news; and now, they've been forgotten.  But, hey, that's life in the fast-paced, never-a-dull-moment, what-did-they-just-say-somebody-hold-my-wig age of Trump.

 

 

On the one hand, I'm with you.  But, OTOH, I kinda see their point.  If we start to engage with the other side on their level, very quickly, it'll devolve into the kind of that's-alright-that's-okay-you're-gonna-work-for-US-someday taunting that's best left to high schoolers.  Subsequently, all real talk ceases and the pertinent issues that NEED to be addressed get swiped off the table and tossed onto the proverbial floor.

 

(When it comes to things like calling AA's apes, though, there's nothing that needs to be discussed.  Racism is racism.  Period.)

Edited June 1, 2018 by Khan

[DRW50]

 

For me it's not really so much about needing to go 'high' (although I think opening the door to the type of commentary I saw - saying that anyone can call a woman a c*** whenever they feel like it, getting offended when anyone says they don't like the word, and going into all sorts of "it isn't bad to call women c***s" backflips - is a very bad idea in the long run) as my not understanding what's so special about these remarks. It's the same as her reminding us yet again about incestuous feelings between father and daughter. Why is this funny or interesting at this point? She has a major TV show for this? It's like when Colbert was going around calling Trump a cock-holster. I'm sure it made him feel like a bad-ass, but it was never especially funny and it just made him look a bit try-hard. 

 

Meanwhile her show had a gushing profile of Eric Schneiderman, complete with animating him as a superhero out to save us from Trump, even though he turned out to be a horror himself.

 

A lot of the 'progressive' talk show hosts have appointed themselves as moral guardians, yet they keep coming across as hypocrites and as insincere when just a little more time and effort would help them get their point across much more easily. 

 

I think too many on the left are still trying to make sure everyone knows they don't want sand kicked in their faces - to the point where they're often doing most of the kicking themselves.

 

I'm not a big fan of Seth Meyers but I think he's one of the few who gets the balance right. 

[Vee]

It's not that I disagree with Bee. It's that at this point, crass performative shít like that doesn't solve anything or further any goal - it just makes everyone look fúckin' crazy. Which gives the Beltway press even more ammo to throw up their hands, chalk everything up to the crazy times and bemoan 'the lack of civil discourse on both sides'* instead of consistently being confronted with the real issue, which is first and last the GOP and Donald Trump and their insane voter base. We can be loud and angry but it has to have substance and action behind it. To me, calling the president's daughter a c**t on TV just gives them an excuse to martyr her and confuse the issue, like the Beltway's brief, failed attempt to make everyone feel bad for Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

Whedon probably should be quiet, but he's right about Ivanka. Except no, "libs" did not create her sympathetic narrative. Ivanka tried to do that herself and it's failing more every day.

 

(* - which is something we actually do need back badly, but not for the Beltway's reasons)

Edited June 1, 2018 by Vee

[marceline]

 

Are we doing that thing where we blame women for not knowing a man is a domestic abuser? Because Bee addressed that in a pretty straightforward fashion when the news came out.

 

As for Whedon, he's right. Too many people bought into the lie that Ivanka would be a "moderating" influence on her father when the truth is she's every bit the sociopath he is. Worse in some ways because she's capable of faking normal human behavior.

[DRW50]

 

I think it's a bad idea to ever put anyone on such a high pedestal for your television show.  I think it's self-serving, distracting, and does more harm than good. A show that is responsible about covering topics would know better. No politician is perfect, especially not in New York politics, especially with the history of AGs in New York in recent years. To me it's not the same as a woman in a day-to-day situation of abuse and control.

 

Given Whedon's history with similar words and with women in general, I can't take his opinion seriously, but beyond that, I'm not sure what his point had to do with the piece on her, which wasn't even about genuinely criticizing her as much as it was about Bee trying for shock value. He is essentially saying that they can say whatever they want about Ivanka (and by extension, women in general, as that's where this type of stuff tends to lead) because of who she is. That opens up a very ugly door which won't be shut. 

 

(the response is usually "Republicans do it too," but if that's the case, it just means we no longer have any ability to even question anything Republicans say)

Edited June 1, 2018 by DRW50