The Politics Thread

[Vee]

[DramatistDreamer]

From what I read, these farmers voted Trump simply for the taxbreaks. They chose to ignore his promises to deport illegal immigrants, thinking/hoping/wishing that he would not follow through. Now that the first waves of deportations of people with minor infractions has begun, somehow they are all flummoxed.

 

I have no time, energy or inclination to understand people who voted for a man who has aligned himself with racists and white supremacists (but of course, we're all supposed to believe that race, not even subconsciously, was a factor

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). Their reasons for voting and their subsequent reckoning is between them and their conscience to wrestle with. Sounds as if these farmers did it out of pure greed and are now left to rue the consequences of their choice.

 

This man said all along what he intended to do and people chose to ignore that and are now trying to put lipstick on a pig to try to justify their choices.

People need to be honest, racism and sexism and xenophobia and all out exploitation is palatable for a significant number of Americans (the farmers themselves said that hiring legal workers would not cause them to raise wages).

The sooner we stop pretending this isn't the case and deal with it in a forthright manner, the better off we'll all be.

Edited February 10, 2017 by DramatistDreamer

[GMac]

 

Agreed.

 

On the subject to Trump voters.  Yes, there are some Dems that crossed party lines, for whatever reason, to vote for this clearly racist misogynist.  All because he made a couple of stops along the rust belt, promising the manufacturing and steel jobs will come back?!?  It was clear in the eighties when Billy Joel sang about Allentown...

 

The thing is, I work in IT and those jobs have been going offshore for almost 20 years.  If the Dems put forth a candidate that said the things Trump did, and wanted me to ignore ALL of that because he/she would bring my programming job back, there is NO WAY IN HELL I would vote for them.  I would have been voting for the Republican.  So I'm with you.  No sympathy for anyone that voted for this abomination.

 

[JaneAusten]

I think the ruling today was struck down on the basis of due process and the lack of it. 70k Visa's were signed away being forced by the Customs Border Agents without any due process or any kind of representation provided. There are at least 15 states that have suits against this ban based on how it hurts them economically I believe The ACLU filed their suit based on violation of the first and I believe 5th Amendments.

 

And I am going to make my pitch for the ACLU. I am volunteering one morning a week(Sat or Sun) to take calls and help with documentation and such where I can. The offices are swamped but they have gotten a ton of support financially. The local office here is expanding their space. And donations have been phenomenal. Bill Gates unbeknownst to a lot of people, was matching donations the Saturday of the weekend of the ban to the tune of 15 million dollars he matched. So while they are financially very solvent, please contribute if you can. This, Planned Parenthood, and Jason Kander's (former Sec of State in Missouri almost Dem Senator) new group Let America Vote are the 3 organizations I am going to focus on in terms of donations. Let America Vote is totally focused on fighting for voter rights state by state and nationwide if the need arises.

[DRW50]

 

For me it's not so much about sympathy as it is understanding their voting process for elections in 2 or 4 years. That's what I mostly disagree with, when people (not here) say those voters are lost because they exist solely to vote for hate. I just think a lot of them for various reasons (some race and gender-motivated, some not) didn't get it. And if they still don't when the elections roll around again, then the rest of us are even more fucked. I think Democrats have done a terrible job discussing trade and job losses, and they can't afford to in the way that Republicans can, because Republicans simply know how to get the turnout and base and how to pick up last minute voters and also how to brutally suppress countless votes. Democrats don't have any of those tools at their disposal, so every vote counts. It still saddens me that so many on the left didn't understand that last year. I suppose some never will.

[JaneAusten]

I'm close to throwing in the towel on democratic messaging. The infighting of Bernie vs non Bernie people is still going on and lord knows I am no Bernie lover, some of what he did message in his campaign resonated with those people you are talking about. I honestly think the establishment dems and the Bernie dems need to let go and let someone fresh come in who can mold the party and messaging. Tom Perez just made a bonehead mistake yesterday which I think is going to kill his chances and Ellison, I like him, but I think the link with Bernie just taints him with too many democrats. I think the platform itself is fine, its the messaging that sucks. I'm a huge Jason Kander fan and I really wish he would have thrown his hat in, but he's likely going to run for political office again. I'm going with Jaime Harrison.

 

Fortunately all these local indivisible groups are sort of taking the baton. There really is no consolidated messaging nationwide, which is probably fine locally and even in statewide races where local and state issues matter most.  There are several statewide GOP races in central and southern Illinois that are already being targeted by these local groups, plus congressional races that have a lot to do with the ACA and how the reps down there have been ignoring the constituents issues, coupled with the blowback on Sec of Education choice. People forget that in rural communities school choice doesn't matter as much because well there is limited to no school choice available in those areas.

[Juliajms]

I agree with you. Of course, it's hugely disappointing that Trump's hate-mongering wasn't a deal beaker for more people.  I was truly stunned that more people weren't outraged by the Access Hollywood tape. They might have disapproved, but they didn't care enough about women (even a lot of women didn't) to change their vote. Just like they didn't care enough about minorities or immigrants to change their vote.

 

That doesn't mean hate was the primary reason for all of those voters or that Dems can't win them back.  I'm not really confident that we can do that right now though. I think we're just hoping Trump will screw up enough to turn their votes, which isn't the greatest strategy, imo.

[Wales2004]

You're thinking and using logic and some of those voters may have understood deep down that nothing would change but they want to believe and chose to vote for Trump.  I watched an interview of three women who voted for Trump a couple of weeks ago.  One of them said she didn't think he would deliver on the jobs but hoped he would and that she wasn't enthusiastic about him, but she felt he was the lesser of two evils. 

 

The people who voted against Hilary Clinton will likely vote for whoever the Democrats run as long as that person is not polarizing with a lot of baggage.

 

I am non-partisan.  I am tired of party rhetoric and all the divisiveness. 

 

What the Democrats have going for them is that they seem to be for people while the Republicans are about money.  But the Democrats need to snap out of their funk and get to networking.  They should be finding ways to get people i.d. cards, working on community outreach programs, etc.  There are plenty of young people who want to belong to something purposeful and they could get something going.  And they need to offer opportunities for young people to learn how the government works so that they can keep new blood in the party because the over 70 club is not cutting it.  Right now they're squandering opportunities to start something new.

[JaneAusten]

Yes and no. I will be the first to admit the democratic party is doing NOTHING to engage people right now. But it's all being done by people who are excited and pumped up and yeah scared too. The Indivisible group I belong to has grown from 20 to 80 to now 200 people. And all ages. We have people who supported various candidates in the last election and you know I talked to a young woman who voted for Bernie who finally helped me understand why. I still never would have, don't think he was the better candidate, but I get why his message resonated with some people. She even said that after meeting some Hillary people she now gets it(and she did vote for Hillary reluctantly). There are people energized and I do think the local work and maybe even state level elections will be fine with no unified party message. But the democrats better not waste too much time before trying to reach out to the local groups or their candidates of choice might just be primaried right out of the party.

[MissLlanviewPA]

Saw this tweet and immediately thought of Khan:

 

 

[GMac]

 

Wales, you are, and have been, someone whose posts always strike me as overwhelmingly fair and insightful.  

 

I do hope that you're right regarding the people that voted against Hillary.  Although, I simply can't understand how someone, using the argument "the lesser of two evils", would come to the conclusion that DJT is that person.  I can't conceive of it.  

 

 

[JaneAusten]

Jason Chaffetz just got roasted big time at a town hall in his district. 1200 people in attendance and 1000 who could not get in the venue outside. And he cut it off it was so brutal.

 

Jason Chaffetz Town Hall
 

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by JaneAusten

[Wales2004]

I was thinking about people who feel left behind or left out.  One of the things that always strikes me as problematic is how all these advocates on various news-related programs will show up to talk about poor people or other disenfranchised people and what they need, but none of them gets to come on and speak for themselves.  They should be talked to and not just about.  Many people just want to feel as if they belong.  I may have said this before but the Democrats should take this time to define Americans and stop letting the Republicans do it while they just fight the Republicans.  It is almost too easy to beat Republicans at their own game that I cannot figure out why Democrats don't and all of this can be done in such a positive way--which will help them win over independent/non-partisans. 

 

Be the Party of and for the People.

 

Thanks!

 

She expressed dismay that she was not given better options.  Maybe she didn't care for Hilary Clinton enough to want to vote for her and he just seemed like more bark than bite.  I can't begin to understand how anyone could find that annoying man an option for anything. I'm about tired of hearing "respectable" people brush off Trump's classless behavior by saying that's how he is but that's not how they would talk.  But then again, I am tired of reporters asking apologists to condemn his tirades when it's evident they won't.

[Vee]

Treason.

 

Also:

 

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Vee

[rhinohide]

Hillary Clinton endured an 11-hour Benghazi hearing. 

Chaffetz left his town hall 40 minutes early.

#ChaffetzTownHall