The Politics Thread

[AdelaideCate007]

 

I just watched a few minutes from some other episodes and I've become convinced that were helping his campaign. Also I think they're using him to try and start WWIII or something. During the actual election night episode, they had a countdown clock going and shout out "we won" win they realise he's going to win. The one from this weekend has repeated proclamations of "our darling Trump" and that he's going to listen to Putin when it comes to global affairs and no need for Russia to be afraid. 

 

Yep. I'm sure Putin will be encouraging Trump to start poisoning his enemies any day now,

[DRW50]

I was reading an article at AV Club about an Adult Swim artist leaving in part because of a new anti-Semitic show they are airing (and partly because of their misogynistic hiring practices), and it's disturbing reading comments sections of pseudo-intellectual wankfests that make up that site and seeing so many anti-Semitic and Breitbart-type trolls pop up. The people there, who are so used to being in their own world, clearly don't have any way to react to how what was once seen as ironic or meaningless now being open hate speech (a word many at places like that would likely decry as "PC" - I remember so many of them clapping like seals when Patton Oswalt was railing against PC early this year). This is why so many trying to seem cool for the last few decades by deriding "PC" was so dangerous - it slowly but surely created a climate where the more disgusting things you say, the bigger a martyr you become. 

 

There's now a well-cultivated echo chamber online that breeds hate and harassment. It's been building for a while but it seems like it was only this year that many took notice, especially of the anti-Semitism, which I think some, especially those in the media, naively assumed did not happen in America. 

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by DRW50

[DramatistDreamer]

A message from one of Obama's chief haters.

[Juliajms]

Interesting. I guess I'm not surprised.  I've always had mixed feelings on the topic of amnesty. On the one hand I do think there is a pretty strong case that having too many immigrants at once depresses wages and helps business owners, which is why people like Reagan were for it. On the other hand, the idea of mass deportation doesn't sit well with me at all.

 

I was really hoping the democrats would make a better case for it than the usual "we are a nation of immigrants". Yes, and at one point we were a nation of slave owners. What we were or are tells me nothing about what we should be. Looking at countries like Japan does tell us what happens when you have negative population growth and an aging population. That's the case I wanted to hear and didn't because policy was lost in the reality show circus.

 

Also, I think the democrats were a little afraid to really dig into the topic might alienate some core voters. I just hope we do better next time because I think this is one of the topics were we lost he election, but it didn't have to be that way.

[ReddFoxx]

In the past few years more people left the country and returned to their country of origin than vice versa, which means it's a lot less of an issue than it was before. And lastly, as long as people hiring undocumented immigrants are allowed to get away with it without being heavily fined and penalized, immigration reform is pointless. We have a day labor camp right down the street from where I live where men wait for contracting jobs, because people will pay and I'm pretty sure that some of the workers are undocumented.

[Khan]

Here is my question: why are undocumented immigrants unwilling to go through the legal channels toward citizenship (or at least resident alien status)?  Is there too much government "red tape"?  Do immigrants wishing to enter the US have to jump through too many metaphorical hoops to be here?  Why do they enter illegally and take the risk of being deported (aside from the pat "they want their piece of the American dream" answer)?

 

It's a serious question  by the way, and I apologize for being so dense on the subject.

[DRW50]

 

I was talking with someone about this a few days ago and they said they've even known people who worked for places to become citizens without becoming citizens themselves - I wonder if some people just assumed they'd always have time. 

[ReddFoxx]

It depends on individual situations, because every undocumented immigrant has different reasons, but for the most part it's about having to go back to their country of origin. If they do make themselves known and opt to go through the process to become a citizen, it's not uncommon for someone to be deported. It's a long and complicated process.

[Khan]

 

I certainly think that's what happened to my father.  Even though he had married my mother, who is a U.S. citizen, he never renewed his work visa, which expired the same year as their nuptials.  And he never got around to addressing this until he retired in 2012 and needed his "green card" in order to receive Social Security benefits.  Unfortunately, the week he was supposed to appear for a follow-up appointment with our local immigration office, he passed away unexpectedly.

 

In that case, wouldn't it be just simpler just to apply for visas or citizenship from their country of origin BEFORE coming over here?  Or is there something I'm overlooking?

Edited November 15, 2016 by Khan

[ReddFoxx]

In the case of poor undocumented immigrants, they just come over looking for work and better living conditions. If you talk to anyone whose parents are undocumented, it's almost always the same story of them wanting a better life and wanting it quickly.

[Juliajms]

I think it takes a long time and it's expensive. I imagine people fleeing from Central America (for example) with their children don't have the time or the money. Plus it isn't like everyone who applies gets in. I know they put an emphasis on family reunification and I also think there is some kind of lottery system, but I've never looked into exactly how it works.

[DRW50]

The need to find a group, any group, to blame for Hillary losing continues:

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-women-214454

 

Lesson Four: The Federal Government Should Have Stayed Out of the Bathroom

Women tend to be big preservers and enforcers of the cultural status quo. When feminism entered into an accord with social justice warriors who complain about “cis-women” (in other words, women whose gender identity matches the sex on their birth certificate—the opposite of transgender women), remade sisterhood into siblinghood and campaigned for transgender bathrooms, it activated a not-too-far-below-the-surface longing for authoritarianism in many middle-of-the-road women. Gay marriage was a big leap forward. Feminism and the lesbian and gay rights movement have long found common ground—it's one of the many ways that women can be in this world. But in the past five years, the folks in the trans-movement insisted that being a woman was no longer a matter of biology and a lifetime of accrued experience but one of preference. Some feminists, well-represented by Elinor Burkett, balked. They were shouted down. And instead, younger feminists dropped the gendered pronouns and started calling each other “they.” But when women’s rights and trans rights become allied, a lot of people, many of whom were women, started to feel like cultural mores were changing too fast.

I'm not going to act like everyone is fine with this or that anyone who "balked" at it is a bigot. A woman I know who is not a bigoted person as far as I can tell was confused and unhappy with the talk of bathroom changes, because of all the fearmongering that men are going to dress as women and use bathrooms as a place to rape and attack. But she voted for Hillary - happily. And I just don't believe this type of issue moved a lot of votes. It's just more othering and scapegoating. This is an old argument and it's one that was used to exclude and shame lesbians from feminist groups - they called gay women "the lavender menace." And here we are in 2016 with a new spin on the same old thing. 

Women like this Peggy person are why so many are adamant about the failures of older white feminists. Even when that's not always fair, people like this undercut any chance at everyone coming together, because it's always easier to use a catastrophic election loss to score points.

Edited November 15, 2016 by DRW50

[AdelaideCate007]

 

I can only speak from experience (as an admittedly well off white woman from a country that the US has a good relationship with) but I assume it's a combination of three things:

 

1. the process is long and expensive

2. if they find out your there on an expired visa or illegally, they will take you into custody with zero qualms about it (trust me- I know). The people who are there on expired visas or that can afford to just take the option to go back to your home country and accept the punishment (basically pay this fine and don't come back for x amount of years) but the poorer illegals will just end up in the detention centers/jail indefinitely or in limbo. The detention centers are not some place you want to be and I imagine most illegal immigrants know this and have stories about it

3. Even if you do everything you are suppose and follow all the rules, they can still end up not approving you and sending you back. For a lot of them it's probably not worth the risk.

[GregNYC]

 

Trump's been a Democrat longer than Bernie has.

[marceline]

The head of the SEC is stepping down which means Trump will get to name her replacement as well as two other member of the commission because the GOP refused to confirm Obama's nominee. Any leftie who voted against Hillary because she was too cozy with Wall Street just turned Wall Street into a Trump casino. It's 2007 all over again.