How stupid~

John stands by like a stone through all these reveals, but when he finds out Todd and Marty slept together (even though she's said several times during all of this that she "loves" Todd) that's what sends him over the edge. They make John look like some kind of neanderthal. It's his sexual jealousy that makes him go nuts. HAAAAATE!

This bugged me SOO much. They also took so much of the power away from Marty and her reaction to Todd by suddenly having John go PSYCHO and act as some Rambo like hero. It really upset me--I'm nto huge into this story anyway but I felt it RUINED the focus, and was a really poor decision. At least after he beat on Todd we FINALLY ended with Marty back in control. And the character is literally making it about him--he's not doing what's best for the situation (which would be to try to let Marty figure out what happened and ask more questions, or take her to her son, or take her to a hospital, or a myriad of things he didn't do)

"The Natalie/Tina situation was LAZY and ridiculous. It definitely reflected a last minute rushed aspect to AE's departure. This was definitley due to Fron's decision to ditch her. "

Agreed. Natalie was a victim of Tess--she saw how twisted she was. I think if Tina had stressed and made it clear that she was worried for Sarah's life she woulda dropped it a bit and calmed down. But no--we needed Tina out of town.

I think if Tina had stressed and made it clear that she was worried for Sarah's life she woulda dropped it a bit and calmed down. But no--we needed Tina out of town.

It would have been so simple. It's so clear they wanted to make Tina look like a totally selfish bimbo. She barely mentioned Sarah. She talked about the stupid dawg! All they had to do was have her shed a tear over Sarah and just forget about the dog. Clearly they want to make Tina (and Natalie by proxy) look bad.

Yeah Tina's not that stupid--Sarah was the driving thing there really. I mean I love dogs, I care about my dog but come on it's common sense she'd not leave Sarah off as a footnote (I actually thought they weren't even gonna have her mention Sarah...)

I really hope there is a payoff to this todd/marty thing. Her finding out was not payoff, IMHO...

Excuse me? I will try to withhold my fury here. But the essence of a mother is her child. There is no human emotion on earth that supercedes that of motherhood. That's why women throw themselves in front of moving trains. There is nothing that Todd has done that overshadows keeping her from her son.

I understand the importance and depth of the mother/child relationship but a mother is also a human being in her own right. Todd destroying Marty's relationship with and even knowledge of her child is reprehensible and unforgivable and he deserves to die for that alone but his re-rape and mental torture of her was about even more than that. It harmed her entire being, which includes the mother in her and her relationship with her son. His violation was utter and I don't think she or John need to ignore everything Todd did to her that didn't involve Cole.

PS. John doesn't have a clue about that depth of emotion. He's not responding to what Marty has endured. John (the bastid) is responding to what HE feels. What a Jack ass.

I'm sure he doesn't understand the depth of any of her feelings about anything but I just don't think it's true that he doesn't care or isn't responding to what happened to her. The fury he feels is because of what was done to her by Todd. That's what he's reacting to. He reacted so strongly to Todd's physical re-rape of Marty because it was the only thing about the situation that he didn't already know, it was a shock. He already knew that Todd must have been lying to her to keep her from looking for him and Cole. He already knew that Todd hated Cole and would use Marty to hurt him if he could. He already knew that Todd had to be trying to make himself look good in her eyes in order to gain some sort of phantom redemption. But he didn't know that Todd was sick enough to go through with manipulating her until they ended up in bed together. John didn't beat Todd up until after that revelation because he wanted Todd to admit that he'd raped Marty and once he did, she mentioned that they'd just slept together and it was then that John realized exactly how far Todd had gone. He lost it and rightly so. It's just a shame he didn't snap his neck while he was at it.

Edited November 14, 200817 yr by RoseVioletDaisy

I personally hate John but I find myself having to defend him here. Let's stop being all fannish. First of all, he had to stand there in the house and explain himself to Marty, otherwise she would've kept the gun on him or shot him dead. If she hadn't been told the whole truth then and there she would have sided with Todd, or worse, given him the gun like he wanted. I don't think John going apeshit on Todd is about him being a jerk or possessive or all about the poon or whatever. Look at it as though it were you: You are a cop, and have just found out that your former would-be girlfriend has been kept from her friends and family for months by her rapist. It's taking all you have to stick to the law and keep yourself from beating him up at the word "go." Then you find out he's raped her once again. What would you do? I don't care if I was John, Mac Scorpio or Bo Brady, I'd beat his ass. Who among us would not want to beat his ass?

And I disagree, I think people are seriously, seriously projecting their own McBain hate onto this silly idea of "oh, he's just mad Todd got there first/took his woman." Bullshit, you think Bo or Nora or Cole or Blair or Kevin or whoever else would not have beat Todd up too if they were there and found out he re-raped her? It's just the logical reaction to a disgusting situation and a disgusting person: Beat him down! They would all do it!

And unfortunately Marty can't beat him down, she's still weak. She does have the gun, though, and I'm glad she can turn it on Todd. I do wish this climax had been more about Marty wreaking revenge than John. But there's only so much you can do with a gun when OLTL isn't ready to kill Todd off.

Edited November 14, 200817 yr by Vee

Vee i get and agree with nearly all of that. For me it's more how it's written--I wish they coulda done it someway that wasn't John the Hero comes in, basically beats Todd to a pulp and I guess runs off with Marty? It woulda been FAR more exciting *for me* to somehow not have him take away from the whole Todd/Marty confrontation. And yeah, I dislike John (most of the time, I was starting to like him more) and Superhero John is both laughable and off putting to me, so I am biased.

ANd I probably wouldn't personally beat his ass--at least not completely uncontrollably but I think sometimes I suffer from too much control in moments of crisis (don't ask but I know pretty well how I'd behave)

If I didn't really like the character of Natalie it might not have stuck out like a sore thumb to me. She's usually not so harsh and judgemental (think Jared, Miles Laurence and Vincent Jones), so this is completely out of character IMO.

While it may be out of character for the way Natalie treats men, it's totally in keeping with the way she treats other women. She's treating Tina the same harsh & judgemental way she treated Jess, Jen, Van, Gigi, Marcie and even Viki and Roxy at one time or another.

The John beatdown of Todd would have resonated with me more if it had been about something other than Todd and Marty having sex.

Think about it. John's relationship with Marty began because he developed a relationship with Cole. John's been playing surrogate father to Cole since Marty died (albeit, not very well).

So take these scenes and reverse the process. John says "He raped you!" Marty says "You raped me? How could you not tell me this. I loved you." John stands by all cool and emotionless like a cucumber. Todd explains "You changed me!" Blah Blah Blah. Then it comes out that they just had sex (or worse, that Marty begged Todd to "make love to her" retch). John still stands by like a cucumber. The conversation ensues. Marty threatens to shoot Todd. John says "You don't want to do this. You're not this kind of person. You're loving and understanding blah blah blah . . . that's what made you such a good mother!" Marty says "What do you mean? I have a child?!!!" THEN John beats Todd to a pulp.

Because they reduced this whole beatdown to John's sexual jealousy . . . it's so ridiculously trite and makes John look like a jackass. We spent the whole week revealing Todd's sins one at a time. Sex with Marty is the LEAST of them IMHO. But the writing, predictably has made that the ultimate transgression. Todd trying to steal Starr's baby means nothing. Todd keeping Marty from her child means nothing. Todd keeping Marty from the man she loves (well that means nothing to me). The ultimate sin is sex with Marty.

Well they've been playing virginal Marty from the beginning... Sex with Marty is suppose to heal the world and make all things right again. I'm pretty sure once John and Marty start dating he's going to try and make her feel "safe" once again so they consummate their "pure" love and be a family. We all know John has a hero complex and won't be interested once she's emotionally whole again and starts asking for more commitment. Let's not forget John has kept many secrets in his past- one concerning the imprisoned Cristian Vegas from his wife Natalie- who believed him dead.

Once again- Llanview seems to have one brain that gets passed around from character to character.

I personally hate John but I find myself having to defend him here. Let's stop being all fannish. First of all, he had to stand there in the house and explain himself to Marty, otherwise she would've kept the gun on him or shot him dead. If she hadn't been told the whole truth then and there she would have sided with Todd, or worse, given him the gun like he wanted. I don't think John going apeshit on Todd is about him being a jerk or possessive or all about the poon or whatever. Look at it as though it were you: You are a cop, and have just found out that your former would-be girlfriend has been kept from her friends and family for months by her rapist. It's taking all you have to stick to the law and keep yourself from beating him up at the word "go." Then you find out he's raped her once again. What would you do? I don't care if I was John, Mac Scorpio or Bo Brady, I'd beat his ass. Who among us would not want to beat his ass?

And I disagree, I think people are seriously, seriously projecting their own McBain hate onto this silly idea of "oh, he's just mad Todd got there first/took his woman." Bullshit, you think Bo or Nora or Cole or Blair or Kevin or whoever else would not have beat Todd up too if they were there and found out he re-raped her? It's just the logical reaction to a disgusting situation and a disgusting person: Beat him down! They would all do it!

And unfortunately Marty can't beat him down, she's still weak. She does have the gun, though, and I'm glad she can turn it on Todd. I do wish this climax had been more about Marty wreaking revenge than John. But there's only so much you can do with a gun when OLTL isn't ready to kill Todd off.

Yep!

I think they overdid the fake a blood a little. lol

Oh no Tina just admitted the truth to Viki.

NOOO! I know it's inevitable, but now Viki's gonna be all mad at Tina

and then Tina will leave town on a sour note which totally sucks because we've waited so long for her to come back and she and Viki have hardly had any scenes to begin with

:(!!

.

Edited November 14, 200817 yr by SFK

I wish it was Bo the one who was heading to Todd's place, instead of Antonio.

I wish it was Bo the one who was heading to Todd's place, instead of Antonio.

Maybe Antonio will die in a November Sweeps crash on the way to Todd's.

Cannot stand him, never could, never will. And take Talia with you!

Kathy Brier was particularly great today, and that primal scream thing Susan Haskell did was brilliant.

This woman is dynamite.