Generations Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

This has been up before, but I didn't see it when I looked through Youtube today, so I reuploaded it. If I missed it my apologies.

@dc11786 @NothinButAttitude @SoapDope @Forever8 @Franko @Vee @Paul Raven @Contessa Donatella @slick jones @kalbir @John @Liberty City

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I like how they handled Kyle's eulogy for his cop friend, even if the scene itself was the usual cheese. 

 

Edited January 7 by DRW50

[Liberty City]

Wow. Amazing. Thanks so much for continuing these kind of finds, @DRW50

[Franko]

Thank you for the tag.

"Is this from the Daniel Reubens benefit?" DUDE, WHAT DOES THE HEADLINE SAY?

[SoapDope]

Thanks.

[Vee]

To her credit, Barbara Rhoades seems to have barely aged between the beginning of Generations in the 1989 pilot episode I recently rewatched for the first time in decades (with the kooky if a bit overlong soap within a soap opening) and her brief, bizarre OLTL stint as supervillain Irene Manning in 2012. To her detriment however, IMO she's a dreadful actor on both soaps - the only time she convinces and amuses is in the spoofy soap Jessica plays her TV character on. I can't even really follow in various episodes why Jessica Gardner comes back to town, how other people know her or why she keeps hanging around. The recast seems much stronger as an actress though in later stuff.

The early voice-over narration is bizarre, and am I to understand they kept using it for awhile? Woof. The early episodes in May or August seem equally staid. I am going to skip ahead and check out 1990 with more Doreen, Debbi Morgan, etc.

Pat Crowley is Sominex to watch - I don't understand how they intended to seemingly pivot part of the show on her character of Rebecca, particularly if they supposedly dumped her so early (late '89?).

[Khan]

Barbara Rhoades is dreadful in pretty much everything I've seen her in.

[Vee]

What exactly happened with Jason Craig in the long run? I know he was Jessica's lost son or something. His reactions re: his flashbacks to his father's(?) death are hysterical.

The whole setup with wooden Jessica, her friend's family, the surfer brother, etc. is so bizarre. I have no idea why they thought any of this was compelling, and the Whitmores are equally lame (except Kelly Rutherford, and her opening story sucks). I feel bad for the great Gail Ramsey a.k.a. GH's infamous Susan Moore. To go from that to this.

Don't get me started on Wally the ice cream guy's rap. Mostly though this show only comes alive with me, or feels remotely inspired, when the Black families are onscreen, which is probably appropriate. I decided to dive back into sampling the show more in honor of Michele Val Jean before Beyond the Gates premieres.

Edited January 20 by Vee

[DRW50]

I thought she was OK on Soap, although she is mainly just there to watch Billy Crystal act like a 90 year old man.

[dc11786]

Jorn Winter arrives around September, 1989, and things improve by mid-November when Jason has been "murdered." It remains relatively strong until at least April, 1990, where my episodes go into a gap. I don't find the summer of 1990 very strong, but there are moments that are worthwhile. 

I'm nearly positive the show was developed as an hour long show. Rebecca's romance with Lloyd Bradfield would have been interrupted by the return of Peter Whitmore and his new wife, Francesca. With only 30 minutes, stories needed to go and the Lloyd romance played out briefly and then was dumped. 

I think the voiceover narration may have continued into July, but they became less and less frequent. 

Sorry I thought I posted this earlier. Will reply to the other responses in a bit.

[dc11786]

Jason ends up with Monique by the fall and they plan to wed. On their wedding day in November, 1989, Jason is "murdered." Everyone is told Jason has died, but we learn a month and half later it was his best man, Paul Jarre (Jon Lindstrum), who was murdered. This introduces Kyle Masters, Sam's love interest. Anyway, Jason goes stir crazy and pops up back in Chicago and reveals himself to Monique and his Aunt Mary, who is revealed to be the one out to kill him for her late brother's inheritance. Aunt Mary, in turn, prepares the couple a poisoned English trifle that nearly kills them so that she can get Jason's money. 

Jason and Monique marry in early 1990 at the hospital and are pretty backburnered in the material I have seen. Monique deals with the breakup of her parents wedding, and then the two open an art gallery which is the site of an art caper in the summer of 1990. By late 1990, Anthony Addabo is off contract and they flirt with the idea of Monique and Butch Hartman's Sean Masters. 

Most of the story for the Whitmores in the Bible was more than likely axed by the network. J.D. and Jessica's relationship was more transactional and J.D.'s true love interest, Lisa Morgan, was going to be revealed to be a transgender female. Laura's story was focused on her competition with Ruth Marshall to win over a former white classmate who was now a plastic surgeon. Laura was going to win because the classmate had a crush on Laura when they were younger. During one of Laura's trysts, her mother-in-law Frances, who was suffering from the early stages of Alzheimers,  was going to get into a car accident threatening to reveal Laura's extramarital liasion. In addition, Sam was going to go into business and allign herself at the ad agency with Trevor's younger rival, Rob Raelko, while Adam Marshall was going to become a male model. 

The Marshalls material tends to stay very strong because domestic conflict was something the series could afford to do well with the well casted Marshall clan. If you didn't catch the MLK Day episode from 1990, it is a strong moment for Vivian and Ruth. 

[Vee]

I am watching it now thanks to your lovely past discussions and it is much more impressive work than anything I've seen from '89. Thanks again! Monique seems terminally boring and the late Addabbo is sadly merely comical to me. Did Jason leave her or something by the end?

I wonder what they intended for Rebecca who seemed poised to be the other central matriarch early on. I do find Pat Crowley quite boring.

How long was Barbara Rhoades there? Linda Gibboney seems instantly more impressive in other eps I've seen, though I still question the need for the entire Jessica and family thread.

[dc11786]

Jason is dropped from contract in November, 1990. I feel like when they killed him off they actually dumped him from the show and then renewed his contract so that it was up in November and it wasn't renewed because the show was cancelled. I could be wrong. 

I feel like it becomes clear as time went on that Sussman was planning on doing Jessica / Trevor before Jorn Winter comes and shakes things up. I felt the Jessica / Laura relationship was suppose to parallel the Ruth / Doreen relationship to the point that Doreen even got Jessica's original story (In the bible, Corey McCallum was going to try to seduce Jessica into bed in a storyline based on "The Graduate.") I cannot remember if I read the part of the bible detailing Monique and Jason's story, but I know what played on air had Jason / Sam and I thought that had potential to give Laura / Jessica some added layers dealing with that turn of events. 

Once Jordan Hale is introduced, it seems like the story changes. Then there is Jessica and Rob's quickie wedding and the story just blows up. Linda Gibboney takes over in September or October 1989. I feel like she might be the first Winter hire as she had worked for him as Sybil on AMC. Gibboney gives Jessica a much needed comic flair and elevates Kelly Rutherford in her performance as they become rivals.

I imagine Pat Crowley's Rebecca was going to be in the thick of the business negotiations involving the acquisition of Marshall Ice Cream, but the business stuff wasn't really suited for NBC so it got scrapped. I don't think there was much to go with Lloyd Bradfield and Rebecca because Lloyd didn't really generate conflict though it was great seeing Crossroads' Ronald Allen on an American soap. Also, once the Peter Whitmore return was delayed, Rebecca's key story dried up. 

The late 1989 arrivals are game changers with Jordan Hale and Kyle Masters setting up a solid triangle for Sam and Maya Reubens giving Adam a viable love interest. The Mullens provided a much needed element of bigotry that lead to one of the show's bigger moments where the racists set off a bomb in the basement of the Marshall mansion during their housewarming gathering. By the time we get to Daniel Reubens and his quest for justice the show really has gotten somewhere strong.  

[Vee]

The show in '90 is much, much more entertaining and engaging than the '89 episodes I've struggled through so far. I'd heard Jorn Winther's name before but you can tell he commanded some loyalty from AMC stars, among others to juice up this cast while moving better story.

[Khan]

Jorn Winther was what GENERATIONS needed: an EP with enough experience and objectivity to tighten up the production and focus on what was working and not on what wasn't.

I agree.  At 300 pages, Sussman's bible for the show contains stories that would've taken YEARS to tell, had GENERATIONS been envisioned as a half-hour show from the beginning.

[wonderwoman1951]

does anyone know off the top of their head if there were ever any interracial couples on generations?