EastEnders: Discussion Thread

[TimWil]

Just binged on here going back to posts just before Christmas and, as always, Carl's views impressed and you others ain't too shabby, either.

 

I agree with a lot of your comments but, as Carl knows, I've just never been a fan of DBH or Lee. This dragging out of his inevitable exit has been agony. Maybe I'm biased because I adored Jenna Russell in both Merrily We Roll Along and Grey Gardens in London but I think she's a terrific NuMichelle. Yeah, SOC earmarked her for this because she'd worked for him on another project but so what? She's not so different looking from Sue Tully that it's jarring (I'll always hate how they recast Emily on ATWT with Kelly Menighan) and she can ACT. As for Roxy and Ronnie I was shocked that they both reached the end of their lives at the same time but it was beautifully done. Is it possible that the truth behind Ronnie's multitude of crimes will resurface any time soon? I'm surprised nobody at least mentioned the K word re her making the baby switch. Perhaps stuff like her being named as being complicit in Fatboy's death could be used for Jack's exit storyline. Before he goes, however, I wouldn't mind a quasi Kramer Vs Kramer story arc with Sam returning to take Ricky back. But, as much as I loved Daniella Westbrook, I can only see Kim Medcalf playing this out. It would be interesting to see if Medcalf and Maslen had any chemistry since they've never worked together as Sam and Jack. I suspect they would have quite a bit. Except for JW's ass I've never cared a thing about Max but I do like this revenge storyline. In a way it seems like this is the original Gavin storyline rejiggered for Max. We shall see.

 

Phil: If I stay here I'll die. 

 

That Phil. Such a drama queen. WTF? Steve McFadden should have requested to have that line changed but I guess his mind was already half in Milton Keynes or Norwich or wherever he was off to do panto so he didn't care.

 

Denise reading Kim to filth on Thursday's episode was a beautiful thing. I hope they stay estranged for many months.

 

Jay and Ben being flat mates? Maybe they can have grief sex if the Queen dies.

 

Back to Michelle-if they do bring back Mark I think it would be perfectly fine for SOC to bring in a new actor with an American accent for him. Floridian Mark having a full blown Surrey accent was one of the all-time dumbest things ever on a soap and correcting this would not exactly be smashing canon, would it?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by TimWil

[Skylover]

 

Agreed. To be honest I feel it is even borderline racist not to have cast someone who at least attempted an American accent. Surely it wouldn't be hard to find a hot young American actor to play the part? It would be something a little different to have an American character.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Edward Skylover

[TimWil]

It was just such an incredibly stupid thing of them to do. I suspect the casting was rushed because DTC was headed out the door and was determined to have Mark in on his watch. If they'd given it a bit more time of course they could have found a young Brit who could do a credible American accent. After all, quite a few young British actors come over here and manage to impersonate Yanks quite effectively. Mark is AMERICAN through and through. That "British" school excuse was such a howler.

Edited February 5, 2017 by TimWil

[DRW50]

 

I think it was down to all the backlash and mockery over Vicki's American accent. They generally thought viewers were idiots, as far as I could tell, so they likely thought viewers couldn't stomach hearing an American accent. They had a number of very anti-American comments, the one I remember most being when someone questioned Mark leering at his underage cousin, his reply was that they do this in the States. 

 

Until they sort out Michelle's return I don't know if there's much point in bringing him back.

[TimWil]

Let me put it this way, then-bringing Mark on, having him speak a Surrey accent despite spending his entire life in Florida and giving the "British school" lie as a reason was an "alternative fact"! It was a terrible insult to the viewers' intelligence.

[Skylover]

Do 'British schools' exist in Florida?!

[cassadine1991]

The backlash with Vicky was that bad?

How old was Mark Jnr supposed to be? There are a number of British actors who could easily pass off as Americans. (Too bad Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland are doing big Hollywood films)

[DRW50]

 

There wasn't rioting in the streets, but there was a lot of criticism, yes. 

 

Please register in order to view this content

 

Mark is supposed to be about 20 years old. 

[Vee]

I am four or five episodes behind, but: the more they have Jamie Borthwick play it up and go broad playing the ostensibly everyday lad to offset the (perfectly fine) guy playing Ben, the more chemistry Borthwick has with him. It was slapping me in the face with a giant trout - or, uh, analogies to that effect. I don't know why they just don't bite the bullet and do it, it's not like they're invested in any other part of Jay's life sans the Mitchells.

 

And yeah, I remember them ripping Vicki a new one. She was really the one problem there in that family unit. I loved the early Den's return storyline, I thought Leslie Grantham was incredible with the family and scheming with Lucy Benjamin (Lisa), I loved Letitia Dean with Dennis/Nigel Harman. It was a sea change, but it didn't last. That's the problem with a lot of EE, it loves to do big things but it's gotten worse and worse at follow-through on evolution, it will often regress or be mercurial, or just cynical or ADD. Well, the show has evolved in a lot of ways since then, but some are good and some are bad and others are just marginal.

 

Speaking of evolution, I am more invested in Martin and Stacey than I should be given this show's history with basically any happy couples, let alone Fowlers.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Vee

[DRW50]

 

You mean you don't believe it when they call each other "bruv" 50 times an episode? 

 

This all really started when they had Ben nearly kiss Jay, and then began giving him emotional scenes with Jay (Ben and Jay rarely had those before this last recast - Ben hated Jay for a while and then Jay was mostly creeped out by him). The romantic and sexual chemistry flew off the screen, even as the show sees them as brothers, as do the actors. I doubt they will ever let it happen, but I wish they would. 

 

I won't spoil it for you but I do hope to hear your thoughts on some of this past episode (the first episode)...especially the last scene. 

 

Do you enjoy any of the teen material? I've started just skipping them.

[Vee]

I did guffaw when the following episode has Jay annoyed at Ben in the kitchen and Ben practically pulls him in a lovers' tiff clinch on the way out the door. I mean, come on.

 

As for the teens, I think the girl playing Bex(!) is quite good, and suited for the family. I think the story with the bullying boys seems silly, but I don't know a ton of context with any of them and it's just a little teen storyline; I think it's harmless from what I've seen. I think the girl playing Louise is variable but seems lightweight opposite her friend, or maybe that's just how the writing increasingly handles the two of them. I often wonder if they are aiming for Michelle and Sharon with them, but it's much more superficial IMO.

 

I think Jenna Russell is increasingly dependable, but having Michelle spend 90% of her time functioning as wise talk-to to increasingly random people just doesn't seem like her to me. Then again, maybe my memories of the original Michelle are a bit jaundiced. She just seems like she floats into scenes to dispense bland wisdom (often to people I don't think she'd do it to, like Phil), then sigh to herself about her utterly sordid and unnecessary backstory which the actress unfortunately makes comes across like the lurid secret life of an oversexed librarian. I think she could do a lot more if they let her play Michelle as opposed to just bouncing between the placid, wise matron or the damaged, pervy middle-aged woman with a booze problem - both of which I think are beneath the character at this point.

 

Where on Earth is Sonia? I couldn't quite follow whatever Bex was saying to Martin and Stacey about her. I mean, I'm in no rush, but...

Edited February 10, 2017 by Vee

[DRW50]

 

Jenna doesn't have the grit that Sue Tully had as Michelle. She seems aimless. I feel like they brought Michelle back just because a producer wanted to do it, not for a reason. 

 

That scene with Ben and Jay was one of the more blatant where I saw a sexual connection (one of the other main ones is a few years ago where they were hugging in the garage and Jay lifted his shirt to wipe his brow and show us his killer abs). 

 

Sonia is in Kettering, working as a nurse. Natalie Cassidy left for maternity leave last September. 

 

Louise has so many personalities yet I don't believe any of them.

[Vee]

The whole plotline with Phil and the transplant's family was dreadful from the day that kid walked into the chip shop, and I don't often find something outright dreadful about Eastenders. Just, who cares about something like this at this point in Phil Mitchell's long run? The scene where he and Sharon fought about it and then, yet again, Phantom Michelle wafts over to tell Phil to straighten up and fly right(??!!) made me laugh. It just feels like they're straining to find anything to do with the characters, when to me what to do with the characters is either split Phil and Sharon up or, if they're so insistent on keeping them together, profoundly change them. This happy families thing seems so pat and false. Granted, I haven't watched them regularly in forever so who knows. It almost makes the domestic follies with the Carters seem propulsive. Speaking of, I didn't mind the Carters' follies too much at first as I think the actors are quite solid and engaging, but they are growing (or rather I imagine already were) increasingly episodic and sitcom-ish* outside of the understandably unpopular connection between Mick and Whitney, which along with Babe is the only thing presently holding my interest there. I don't find Mick and Whitney a thrilling couple or anything, but at least it's a soapy, messy story as opposed to day to day shenanigans.

 

That scene with Ben and Jay in the garage practically hooting with forced Jack-the-Lad jauntiness and apparently attempting to conjure the spirit of Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins was a bit of a cringe and did not exactly make their platonic mate banter sing. Meanwhile, a damp, beleaguered Phil continues to increasingly resemble a wet elder beaver.

 

* - this paragraph was written before viewing the Suzie Wong incident, which, whoo

Edited February 10, 2017 by Vee

[DRW50]

 

The Carter story has been the same scene over and over for months, with any story progression shoved into 1-2 episodes before they go back to status quo. 

 

The highlight has been the extended period of time where Lee wore very tight suit trousers and there were extended looks at his ass and crotch. 

 

Have you gotten to the episode where Sharon cancels their flat and begs them to stay, and it's all basically framed as oh what a pathetic loser Sharon is, how do the men put up with her? The writing for her is so degrading. 

[Vee]

I thought the Sharon thing was tiresome, but at least they seemed to come to a resolution. I wish she wasn't leaving with Phil, though.

 

Diane Parish was pretty incredible as Denise ripping Kim apart. They've leaned heavily on her in the last month and she can take it; she's really very good. I just wish I had faith they'd continue to do so, as I don't remember EE giving its black characters enough in the bulk of my viewing years.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Vee