SOD: B&B Revamp?

[AddictedToSoaps]

Well, if the changes are anything like today's show, then I don't mind. They didn't bother me at all.

[MarkH]

Monstrosity? I love it, but I am also appalled :-).

I want Glo to stay on Y&R anyway. (Yup, I'm the only one who does). But I so miss Darlene Conley and Sally Spectra that I can't stand it. At least when their stories were stupid they were INTENTIONALLY stupid. Now, they're just embarrasingly stupid (dying Katie goes to the prom; dying Felicia in end stage bowel cancer that has metastacized to the liver gets a miraculous partial organ transplant and now looks healthier than anyone on the show).

I have this deep, deep loyalty to William J. Bell...I can't totally explain why. I so want this final baby of his to thrive for a long time. For me, the monstrosity is the creative direction of this show. I personally suspect that B&B is about to plummet from rank 2, and join all the rest at the bottom of the pile. There is nothing to sustain viewership right now.

[JackPeyton]

no, you are not

[AddictedToSoaps]

I do too! Sally is one of my favorite soap characters ever. B&B is not the same without her.

[MarkH]

See, she was the soul. B&B was kind of a cold fish when it debuted. Interesting enough, but I really don't think it caught fire beyond being Y&R's follow-up. When Sally joined the show (initially for a short term role, but boy did it explode), it turned the show on its' ear. Suddenly there was humor and campl Suddenly there were haves and have nots. Suddenly there was this great ongoing battle. It was fun, and work EVEN BEFORE they brought Macy in for a Romeo and Juliet with Thorne.

Brad's commitment to the Spectras waned fairly quickly, but at least he left them on canvas. And Darlene, bless her heart, was such a force of nature that she was able to steal the show even when she was just quiet in a scene. Like Jeanne Cooper on Y&R, Darlene LOVED her audience and its' adoration, and she projected in back in every syllable and movement. She was the emotional hook for the show.

In those earlier days, Susan Flannery and Katherine Kelly Lang also rocked. Flannery was so cold, so hard...but when she does one of her verbal harrangues--pure reason, little emotion--you can't help but agree with her. She CLAIMS you with her total authenticity. I never really liked Stephanie, never really supported her actions...but couldn't wait to see her.

When Flannery and Conley went at it--all reason versus emotion--it was a perfect ying and yang.

Back in those days, young ingenue Brooke...so sexy, so sweet, so sincere, totally sold me. She often did horrendous things (keeping Ridge and Caroline apart, later bedding Eric), but she did it with such girlish sincerity. She was the opposite of Sally (not loud, not boisterous), but equally plausible as a girl carried by dreams and hopes.

One would think that, despite Conley's death, Flannery and Lang might be able to keep it going. But Flannery is so CLEARLY bored, it doesn't work very well anymore. And her character's relentless clinging to Eric undermines her as a supremely rational being, because her choices make so little sense. She has also been damaged by plot driven messes (like telling Katie she "loves" her, when we never saw that relationship develop on screen). And Lang, dear sweet Lang, is 100% implausible now. A 40-something woman is NOT a girl, and her choices cannot be justified as "clinging to hope and dreams". When a woman does that at her age, we start to see she is sick, deluded, rather like Amanda Wingfield in the Glass Menagerie. Such sickness can be fun to watch...but it cannot sustain the emotional core of a show.

Taylor and Felicia never worked as emotional centers for the show. Taylor used to be so crisp and *always right* (I say that in a good way), and she should have stayed that way. Tylo simply doesn't handle playing "breakdown" well, so now we have our strong and smart Taylor erased, and indelibly replaced with this weeping and shrieking mess. Not fun.

Lesli Kay stole my heart during her terminal illness story, but they should have let her character die. The "rescue" ruined Felicia in three ways: First, it introduced a supreme implausibility, rather like "Josh" at All My Children. Second, we didn't see her go on to make choices IN LIGHT of her death experience...so in the end the dying became irrelevant. Third, the character has been horribly neglected ever since...so we don't have anyone we "root" for. I still love Kay, but (due to the absence of writing for her) she has tended to become this snarky dame in the corner...there is no heart or intrinsic interest.

Suddenly, we have a show at 21 years of age with NO emotional center. There has been a desperate attempt to put Katie there...but the writing has been so schlocky and our history with Katie so brief, it cannot sustain interest.

I honestly believe that unless this show is willing to start over...to build some young generation members who command our emotions...it is dead. I cannot think of a SINGLE outstanding cast member since Adrienne Frantz. There is not ONE that just drew us in. That represents at least a decade of failure.

[Ben]

ITA. Sally was unique, one of a kind, and no one will ever replace her. But, I was told the other day that the Sally void will be filled, and the person doing the filling will be Jackie. Lesley-Anne Down is finally getting a storyline in the not to distant future. And according to my contact, she rocks it - whatever "it" is.

Anyway, I wonder if Jackie's soon-to-be front burner status has anything to do with the "revamp"? If this "revamp" is simply the inclusion of new stock shots, location scenes and "hipper" music, then it's not really much of a revamp, and more like an update. And I've gotta echo what the majority have already said - why bother with the cosmetic changes, when the foundations need an overhaul. The writing sucks. The storylines suck. The freakin' opening credits suck. The lack of utilization of key cast members suck. Filming outside, and adding in new music is not going to detach from what really needs fixing.

Most of the characters still interest me, but the majority of the show (storylines) bores me. I can tolerate Rick & Taylor, because I've come to view Taylor as a "new" character; The old Taylor has been destroyed beyond repair, and that's sad. I totally agree with, Sylph, Susan Flannery looks bored and jaded. I've never ever, liked Ridge - He's one piece of wood that seems un-flammable, determined to stay with B&B for bloody ever! I have zero interest in Phoebe/Marcus/Steffy/Donna/Eric/Pam, Nick & Katie, Ridge & Brooke - all of which are either dull, going round in circles, or have yet to give me a viable reason why I should invest my time in them. Oh, and now this Trent guy has been added to the already insipid equation. Ugh!

Having said all that, I'm a sucker for a big stunt, and I'll continue to periodically tune in for these. But I would love to be able to watch everyday; To struggle to find the time to sit and watch; To actually want to watch, and not just be pulled by the lure of the big stunt.

[juppiter]

My "plan to save B&B":

We don't need Brooke AND Donna AND Bridget AND Beth around. IMO, Brooke should be the sole Logan standing. Bridget should go work with Doctors Without Borders and return in recast form in a few years.

There's no need for Jack Wagner anymore... I never liked him on this show (LOVED him on Melrose) and he's just run his course at this point.

Lesli Kay needs a storyline immediately.

Winsor Harmon has languished for years. Bring Macy or Darla back to life or just cut him loose for good.

Brooke and Ridge should marry and stay together without a triangle for at least 2 years.

Stephanie needs to either leave or be front burner, as "just a little" Susan Flannery is not enough. B&B has always revolved around Susan Flannery, and she either needs to be on 4 times a week or the show needs to learn how to do without her. As long as she's still on, but not on everyday, the show will remain in limbo.

Where is Taylor? I just realized she hasn't been on in a while. Cut her loose.

Go back to having Forrester front and center. Use this to introduce the new generation.

ETA: Ashley! I forgot Ashley was on this show. And that's pretty sad and very telling. Yeah, bout her. Either initigrate her or let her go back to Y&R.

[juppiter]

The problem is, MarkH, that when you say "decade of failure," it's weird because B&B hasn't sucked for this entire last decade. There have been some amazing storylines and moments. At several points during the past decade, B&B has been the best soap opera on the air with great writing and performances. And yet I agree with you! There were so many disappointments during the last decade, so many times when the status quo was chosen over something that looked intriguing.

Brad Bell's short attention span helped him to ruin it every time he was trying to reinvent the show. And as he kept coming up with new, outrageous ideas, this didn't really matter for a long time. But now that the cast has aged and he is out of good ideas, the status quo is all we're stuck with and it's boring.

ETA: Adrienne Frantz wasn't the only terrific younger addition in the last decade. Jennifer Finnigan was awesome. But of course she's not coming back.

[MarkH]

Good ideas

I would agree, but I'm over it. I think she needs to be given the TERRIFIC terminal cancer storyline she was robbed of, and she should die. Her time would be brief but magnificent.

Asbestos on, so can I say...Harmon never clicked for me. Why is a football-playin' Texan related to all the others? Can I also say I liked Jeff Trachta, and I have never understood how Thorne went from soft/confused (Clayton Norcross...a genuine preppy) to troubadour/showman (Trachta) to...this. I think Thorne could be essential...but not this guy. What about Alec Musser as a recast?

Seriously, though, I think we have a way to get something Macy-ish...but not Macy. She has that half-sister (last played by Ashley Lyn Cafagna). What about recasting her as a thirty-something, making her Macy-like (early Macy...so a bit of a b*tch)...and having her steal Thorne's heart?

Within hours of their triumphant final marriage, Ridge should die. This will permanently end this story, but give us some good launching for KKL's next arc.

She wants to retire. So, let's let her go....like ripping the bandaid off a hairy leg. Then, let's rebuild.

Yes, Ashley to Y&R. Taylor either needs to go, or find herself again as the moral center of the show. She is mother to three of the younger ones (twins, Thomas), so she could happily be the new matriarch. I'd totally buy that...but only if she stops shrieking. I realize this is one actress I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE HER OWN STORYLINE. I want her as the "Ruth Martin" of this show.

I'm totally in agreement with the younger generation coming up, BUT IT MUST BE WITH TERRIFIC, AMAZING ACTORS.

[MarkH]

I am sure you're right. I HAVE been watching this whole decade. But remind me what the moments of greatness were...because honestly, I can't hold on to a one of them now. I remember great MOMENTS, terrific stunts, awesome locations...but not good coherent stories. I am sure I'm forgetting. (Amber-Rick and Deacon-anyone were favorites for me).

Like Ken Corday, sadly, the verdict seems to be that luminous talent is not purely genetic, and the offspring may simple exist to squander their inheritance. I wish this were not true.

There are still tremendous potentials here. But Brad NEEDS TO REST. He needs to work with a new HW and EP...totally under his direction as Senior EP...but with some permission to TRULY revamp.

Yes, oh my, I'm slapping myself for forgetting!!!! Finnegan!! Also, though they're closer to my age than "young", I thought that Sean Kanan was fearlessly bad as early-Deacon, and Ric Hearst's "Whip" could have been enormous fun.

[JackPeyton]

no.

her name is lauren fenmore!

[crc]

We can agree that Glo should stay at Y&R! At least as long as I'm not watching it anymore. They bring back Vicky Rowell/Dru, then she's GOT TO GO!

I miss Darlene Conley and Sally, too. She was in many ways, the heart of this show and I think she might have even been a bit of a inspiration for Brad Bell, because since she's been gone, he's just lost his way.

Sally was all things: heart, fun, laughter, sadness, joy, comedy, sassy, etc. And as over-the-top (but in a good way) this character was, she was still the most relatable character on the show. She was the hustler, the scraper, the person always in the shadows of the Forrester brand, but no matter how many times life knocked her around and beat her around, she always got up, dust her shoulders off and got right back on that horse. Okay, I think I used my limit of cliches for the day.

[Evan]

What they really need to do is take the focus away from Nick/Katie/Bridget and the Logans - Heather Tom and Jennifer Gareis aren't talented enough to carry this show, Jack Wagner should be backburnered for a while, and we need to see a lot more of Stephanie/Brooke/Taylor. If there's a decent Brooke/Ridge SL coming up, I'd be OK with that too.

New music and camera angles are all well and good, but B&B needs more than cosmetic changes right now.

[bandbfan]

I doubt Donna will be done until she and Eric are apart. Seems like they've backburned Rick and Taylor relationship, which I don't mind at all. I like Hunter Tylo, but not in that story. Usually we're wanting Ridge to go away from being on so much and now he's been gone for a few months. Things will change eventually.

[All My Shadows]

The thing that I don't like about B&B right now is that nearly half of the characters are 1987 originals, some of whom left the show after a couple of years and some of whom have been around the entire time...so the result is that most of the women have slept with most of the men and vice versa, and when they run out, they just SORAS the hell out of the kids to make them legal. Nothing is interesting anymore because it's the (cue the Four Tops) same(!) old song! Logans against the Forresters. And that's it. New characters are soooooorely needed on this show. Should it be taken over by new characters? Hells no. But A, they need to show progress in the old guard characters (why is Brooke still acting the same way she was when I watched this show in, oh....1993?). Brooke and Ridge could be an interesting couple if they'd grown up a long time ago. Once again, it's the same(!) old song! And B, they need to introduce characters who are going to take this show into the future. Darlene Conley's death proved that Sally Spectra wasn't going to be around forever. And neither will Stephanie Forrester, or Eric Forrester, or Ridge Forrester, or Brooke Logan, or Thorne Forrester, etc. Amber needs to go back to B&B pronto. That's her home and it's where she belongs, damn it! And bring back Thomas on contract! And finish what Amber and Thomas had started two or three years ago, too! Gradually introduce characters with the intent of them being around for the long haul. None of this six month [!@#$%^&*]. Bring them in, have them make true relationships with the established characters (do we, the audience, know anything about Stephanie's relationship with her grandson Thomas? is it bad, good, nonexistent?) so that they don't continue to be newbies on a show filled with veterans.

And for goodness's sake, bring back the old opening! I *never* thought it was outdated. The pictures were, but the concept, never!