Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread

[althea-davis]

An early episode.

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[DeliaIrisFan]

Rose was definitely a victim of the 1981 writers' strike.  And the fact that Alaio would have shared a farewell party with Michael Corbett confirms that - the whole bonkers story of his exit (and Kim's pregnancy) was scab material.  I don't suppose the Guild had any policies around striking writers sending going-away presents to cast members who got the axe while they were on the picket lines.

As for that brief era of the Ryan cousins, I can only imagine the backstage politics were much more interesting than most of what happened on screen.  Admittedly, by that point, the siblings had all been recast so many times that it may have been a necessary evil to bring in new "blood," but I can't believe Labine and Mayer were that enthused.  I suspect Barry especially may have also been some kind of compromise between them and the network: someone related to the Ryans but (openly) enough of a gray character to scheme and backstab with Delia, et al. 

Barry's ties to the Ryans could have been interesting if the writers had explored Johnny's reaction to someone in his family being so immoral and/or given him some conflict with Maeve about whether Barry should still be welcome in the family.  Similar to what Labine later did with Dakota upon her final return.  Never mind if someone had actually pointed out that some of Barry's sins were the fractured mirror reflection of things the "good" Ryans had done before.  As it was, Barry's name was just an excuse for him to be at the bar, and Backus was a capable actor but didn't really spark either as a Ryan or anti-Ryan.

Whatever backstage changes led to Barry finally being cut loose, I will never understand why they wasted a casting coup like Maureen Garrett by introducing her as his sister right after he had left.  Especially when Mary or Siobhan #6 wasn't the only alternative in that era.  Why couldn't they have brought her on as a widowed or (to Maeve's chagrin) divorced Kathleen Ryan Thompson?

Edited May 29, 2023 by DeliaIrisFan

[DRW50]

I thought Barry worked fine when he was paired with Delia and living a double life, but after that when he was just one of many voices against her, he was redundant. The show already had too many not all that interesting "complex" male figures at that time (Michael, Roger, Joe).

I liked the actress who played Kathleen, but I agree that Maureen would have been great in the role. She would have been too young, but it could have worked.

[dc11786]

Michael Pavel's murder, Kim's impossible pregnancy, and the truth about Rose's daughter were all pretty messy stories. The strike definitely killed some momentum, though there were elements I enjoyed. I thought bringing Kim into the Ryan circle by leaving Rae's place and taking refuge with the Ryans connected the canvas in a natural way that wasn't very common at that time on the series. I also thought the introduction of Craig LeWinter as a potential love interest for Kim as well as for Faith had some potential. Overall though, it was just messy. 

I can't remember, but was Barry's dropped gambling storyline started during the strike or before? 

I think contracts ran out as the strike went on. Daniel Hugh Kelly left when his contract was up and I thought that was why Richard Backus also departed. The introduction of the Chicago Ryans was a necessary evil given the title of the show. Also, Elizabeth Jane was Barry's half-sister/step-sister depending on the day of the week. I didn't mind having a young female Ryan and thought pairing her with Roger allowed them to revisit the idea of Mary / Roger from the beginning of the show. 

[DeliaIrisFan]

That was nothing against the actress who had guest starred as Kathleen.  She was a standout in that small role, but I know had other things to do careerwise.

Was Garrett really too young for Kathleen?  She was a few years older than Daniel Hugh Kelly, but he was gone and she was younger than 2/3 of the Franks to date.  Garrett was believably older than Siobhan and the recently deceased Mary.  And in terms of the next generation of Ryans, I think they could have cast adolescents who would have been credible as her daughters and older than Little John and Ryan.  (How old was the last child actress to play Christina on GL anyway?) 

Instead of EJ the young journalist trying to break into the business, they could have established that Kathleen had been a journalism major, decided to stay at home with the kids, and now breaking the Barbara Wilde story was her big chance to jumpstart her career after a decade or so out of the workforce.

Not to mention, they dressed EJ ~ 5-10 years older anyway...

Edited May 29, 2023 by DeliaIrisFan

[danfling]

I hated that Barry Ryan's gambling storyline was dropped so suddently!

 

[DeliaIrisFan]

I don't even remember Barry's gambling, but I guess the timing of his exit would have lined up with the strike as well.  I want to say EJ came to NY looking for Barry, and just missed him.

The scab material was very messy, and I 200% support the writers' strike now as I'm sure I would have back then.  But indeed there were some scab elements that offered a glimpse as to what qualified writers might have done in the way of new ideas without gutting the show.  I'd forgotten about Kim staying with the Ryans, but in a similar vein I do remember Frank and Jill representing someone (Rae?) in Michael's murder and sleuthing to find out what really happened.  They actually had a fun kind of Nick and Nora dynamic, after sooo many years of angst.  Imagine a well-crafted whodunit on RH at that point, when the realism and original core were still mostly intact.

I don't think it's heresy for me to say the creators had earned a break - Labine herself said as much in later interviews, that she was burnt out and wished she'd taken a leave of absence around that time, but was afraid of what the network would do to the show.  In many ways, the strike material (not to mention the mid-'80s) confirmed her worst suspicions, but what might have been...

Edited May 29, 2023 by DeliaIrisFan

[danfling]

I had been thinking that there was no murder trial for Rae.   The show seemed to getting ready for one, but it never happened.    I cannot remember what reason was giving on the actual show.

I read that the show had borrowed from The Edge of Night a courtroom for Rae's trial, but it never happened so the borrowing was in vain.

[j swift]

I've always assumed that was the sign of the mystery being written by inexperienced writers.

The audience watched Rae shoot Michael. So, they wrote her into a corner.  Then, they had to make up another shooter who got to Michael before Rae in order to resolve the issue.  But, of course, it never absolved Rae of actually shooting Michael.  IRL, if you intended to murder someone and by chance they were already dead before you shot them, it doesn't mean that you're still not guilty of at least manslaughter.   However, given the inexperience of the writers, they hadn't planned the conclusion to the story in advance. 

I support the union, and I think scabs are immoral.  However, it is hard not to be amused by the errors that they made in basic storytelling.

Edited May 29, 2023 by j swift

[DRW50]

I will always support writers over scabs, but I have to admit I did not share the sense of loss over the strike for 1981 RH. I did not care for the Michael/Rae/Seneca/Kimberly story at all and I was glad to see it brought to an ugly end - I was also glad that Michael, a character I disliked, was gunned down. I also thought the material with Faith helping a teenager with a drinking problem was better than the material she had been getting before and after that (mostly feeling sorry for herself and bitching about Jill - boo hoo the man you knew loved Jill for a decade still loved her, poor you). I hated Rose being written out, but otherwise Joe's vendetta against Jack was carried along well enough and produced some genuinely tense episodes in this period, like the one where Jack and Maeve were in danger of being killed by an assassin.

I am sure there are things I didn't enjoy (probably involving Barbie Siobhan, and the treatment of Delia...), but I'd still put it over the rest of 1981.  

[DeliaIrisFan]

I doubt Michael would have lasted very much longer, strike or no strike.  And the union writers were the ones to write out Kim as soon as they returned, a decision that probably would have stuck if the scabs hadn't defied all logic to make her the mother of Seneca's child and Rae's grandchild.  (A very petite woman who'd had an abortion less than a year earlier somehow didn't realize she was pregnant again until she was in labor?)

1981 was a disappointing year for RH all around, but I would rank the post-strike as the best of the year.  The ancient Egyptian curse and even the soap within a soap story didn't really belong on RH, but at least there were good actors with good dialogue and the stories proceeded at a pace that suggested there was a plan.  The material leading up to the strike was blah and yes Kim was dreadful, but the show at least abided by basic laws of time and space.  The strike material was just bananas to me, but again, the scabs threw so much **** against the wall that I wondered if one or two of the changes could have been interesting in a more sustainable way.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by DeliaIrisFan

[safe]

Unless some new information has surfaced, 10 or 15 years ago Louise Shaffer (Rae) had said Daniel had an out clause in his contract and he could leave at any time with little or no notice and that was  what he did when the strike ended. He left to star in a  prime time series (columns said different shows - either Murder Ink or Chicago Story).

[safe]

I mentioned this blurb in the 1980's ratings thread. Not sure what the date of the column - which said show was experiencing ratings trouble.

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I was most curious about the big CP party ratings.

Ratings from Jason's posts. 

3-24 /6.7

3-31/7.3

4-7/7.3

4-14/6.5

4-21/6.8

4-28/6.7

5-5/5.3 End of the week was Crystal Palace opening

5-12/6.6   Continuation of Crystal Palace opening

5-19/6.1  End of Tiso and big Jack/Siobhan/Joe scenes

5-26/6.3

6-2/6.4

6-9/6.1

6-16/6.4

6-23/6.8

6-30/6.5 Sarah's last episode 7/1

7-7/6.5

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by safe

[Chris 2]

I understand that Daniel Hugh Kelly signed a new contract with the show in January 1981, when his original contract was up. His new contract included an “out” to do a primetime show, and he took advantage of that in the fall of 81, when he left to do “Chicago Story”. The producers left the role open in case Kelly’s new show quickly failed and he wanted to return. It did, but he didn’t.

[safe]

Thanks! I recall Louise said that Frank was to have been part of the Merit Kara story and they had do a big rewrite with DHK's sudden departure.

Edited June 21, 2023 by safe