DAYS- A show without Bo, Hope, Steve, Kayla, John, Marlena?

[soapfan770]

If Marlena, Bo, and Hope were to leave I would be very tempted to stop watching. If John were to leave though, I would not shed a single tear and probably celebrate instead. I actually haven't cared for John and Marlena since about January when both Hogestyn and Hall started hamming up their lines and such.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Steve and Kayla were perhaps the biggest super-couple Days has ever had in the past 20 years. At their peak, they were arguably bigger than Bo and Hope and John and Marlena. Are we forgetting that Steve and Kayla's 1988 wedding is daytime's second highest rated wedding ever, only topped by Luke and Laura's 1981 extraganza?

However, Days has had the biggest audience shift, of any soap, over the past 15 years or so. JER's 90's acid trip added a lot of younger viewers who weren't familiar with the show pre-JER.

[Soapsuds]

I thought Steve and Betsy's wedding on ATWT was the second highest rated wedding ever?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I believe it came close and was for a few years, but I know Steve and Kayla's 1988 wedding is widely regarded as the second highest rated soap wedding ever.

Steve and Kayla's 88 wedding is definitely the highest rated episode on Days' history too.

[David_Vickers]

Absolutley not! DAYS would not be able to survive without Bo & Hope and John & Marlena, and to a lesser degree Steve & Kayla. If all 3 super couples were gone, DAYS would soon follow IMHO.

[Paul Raven]

Over the years Days has tried to nuture new couples but actors leaving and writer changes have left J&M and B&H as mainstays of the show. The whole supercouple formula is a trademark hard to shake.

The roots of these couples go back to 81 for John&Marlena(the beginning of Roman&Marlena) and 83 for Bo&Hope.

Throughout the 90's (apart from Jack&Jennifer) and this decade no couple has caught fire like these earlier pairings.

Other shows don't have the same reliance on signature couples that put Days on the map but at the same time this can be seen as a liability for the show.

At one time or another,these pairings have been off the show,but the trouble is there's been no long term planning to cater for this.

The neglect of the Hortons and the constant reliance on the DiMeras is evidence of this.

[Kate DiMera]

This question assumes a false premise: that the show can survive with them or without them simply based on their mere appearance onscreen (writing quality, anyone?), and that this soap, alone, is the only one drowning. Only speaking of ways to ensure DAYS' survival is myopic, as soaps are interlinked on a larger scale, and their ratings have collectively been declining steadily for years. If "saving DAYS" only means increasing their dismal ratings in comparison to the slightly less dismal ratings of their ABC and CBS counterparts, then they're really starting from the ground up. Their once built-in audience has eroded away to practically nothing, so the slate is entirely wiped clean. The (questionably) creative minds should see this as a new beginning, and a chance---a last chance---to put together the innovative, smart, clever, entertaining show that they'll need to even be considered for renewal. (At the very least, they should be looking to go out with a bang, not a whimper!)

In order to do that, they have GOT to move in new directions; it's GOT to get out of the rut. They're competing with prime-time, with cable, and their stubborn, inexplicable need to stay in the past as if these other genres don't exist is their primary source of self-destruction. And the archaic concept of the larger-than-life "supercouple" in question in this thread is a huge part of the noxious heel-dragging. Everything and everyone is replaceable if what emerges in their wake is better, and if miracle-worker, Ed Scott, is going to defibrillate the entire show, he can start by ending the insipid writing that regularly insults the audience, and find new dramatic angles to pursue that will grip their attention. It's no more simple or difficult than that.

P.S. Paul Raven - There is no more apt a word for the "supercouples" of today than "liability."

[PhoenixRising05]

This is a great topic and I have been thinking about my response since yesterday. I hope this makes sense but here it goes.

I grew up on all of these supercouples. That is why no matter how bad their story is I can find some form of entertainment because of the actors and the characters. However, I understand that Steve and Kayla are two characters that are irrelevant to the eyes of many current Days watchers. There are so many factors that have hurt their return. Days hardly mentioned them while they were offscreen. Kayla only got mentioned at family events and Steve was completely phased out. Days bringing them back during a writing transition only further hurt their return and pairing Steve with Billie, a character that many recent fans are used to, also hindered them because many people ended up liking them more then Steve/Kayla. It seemed that was changing in December when Steve remembered but then Days tossed them into the mind control story that was hindered by the fact that Hogan couldn't write the story using everyone he wanted to. As Ryan said, the story wasn't played for every beat because Bo, Hope, John, and Marlena were not accessible to him to use in that plot. He used them early on in that story and at times when he had to but, otherwise, they weren't seen. I think if those 4 were involved and if Steve and Kayla had been mentioned over the years, along with bringing them back during a time of more stability, that their return could've worked.

Other examples are Carrie and Austin's returns. Again, they were both hardly mentioned except for here and there and then they return with little impact. While alot of that had to do with JER going for a remake of Carrie/Austin/Sami/Lucas II, I think many fans just didn't care anymore. Fans cared more for Nicole then Carrie and LUMI had built up such a fanbase at that time that Carrie/Austin just weren't as big as they were. They had their fans but many of them got turned off by the remake of the quad. At least with Stefano's recent return he had been mentioned alot over they ears so that even new fans had somewhat of an idea of who he was Same goes for Tony.

Days made their own bed. Now they have to lie in it. They pushed the supercouples but I should also note fans were different in the 80's and 90's. There was more patience then and fanbases were not nearly as bad as they are now. Since 2002, fanbases have been Days' biggest problem IMO. Now, that is not to say that all fanbases are evil. I have seen many fans out there be quite sensible and understanding, like the Bope fans who were very patient with the Zack story and only turned against it when it turned into another run at Bo/Billie. For the most part, though, fanbases have become appalling in their behavior. They nitpick about little things like scene length, bedsheets, etc. They have no patience at all and condemn a HW for life after one day on the job. Days has had to rewrite so many things over the years because many fanbases just don't have the patience to watch something unfold before going nuts with boycotts and campaigns. Days has been watered down so much over the past 7 years or so because of this and it sucks. Any HW Days gets is going to have an issue because it's impossible to make all the fans happy, especially at Days. Nothing ever seems to be enough anymore. The HW gets boxed in because he can't even break up a couple or attempt a new pairing like other soaps can do. The HW of Days, no matter who it is, has to hold back so much because of the rabid fanbases.

The problem over the last 7 years is Days always has responded to fanbase backlash and they have catered to those masses far too much. Now, these fans think they are always going to get what they want so they don't even wait to see something unfold anymore. They immediately react and Corday and the show panics and has to "Save Days" again. It's grown so tiresome it makes me sick. I watch old stuff back from the 80's and 90's and Days took risks back then. They weren't afraid to bust a couple up for drama. They delivered compelling drama and didn't worry about which couple's fanbase would whine today. They need to do that now. They need to just deliver compelling drama with a well-balanced cast and I think that will help the show immensely. I am hopeful Ed Scott will help that along.

Sadly, the show could not survive without the big 4 of Bo, Hope, John, and Marlena because Days has emphasized them so much that it's hard to break from that. J&M are the big couple for most recent fans due to JER's run in the 90's, which is why I think their fans are the ones most irritated by what is happening the past 2 years. Honestly, I do think Days could survive without John and I wish they would rid us of him. Marlena is so much better without him and I have lost all respect for Drake with his comments a few months ago. Steve and Kayla have a HUGE fanbase but I'm not sure how many of them even came back to watch. I consider them big enough to make this a big 6 but most probably don't. J&J would probably make this a big 6 since they were big with recent fans. I actually think LUMI and EJAMI might be bigger to the current fan landscape then Steve/Kayla.

The show has some good potential new couples but they aren't developed the same way as Bo and Hope and the others. Days doesn't play all the beats of the new love stories and SORASing has also prevented us from watching these character grow together. One minute Belle and Shawn are kids, then they are teens, and then they are 20-somethings raising a child. JER messed that up because it was well too early to make Belle a mother. We should have seen character growth in the young generation and maybe even more adnventure like past couples had, not them all jumping into issues that the major supercouples didn't face until well into their runs. JER never did that with Carrie/Austin/Sami. He gave them all believable issues for their age group at first in the 90's. with some bits of adventure, and then slowly engrossed them into more adult-issue stories. Basically, the lack of development hurts and having so many writing changes and cast changes over the years has played a huge role in why Days has had no choice but to be dependent on Bo, Hope, and co.

As I said, I think they just need to focus on the show as a whole and telling compelling dramatic stories that use history and utilize the cast. I think Days can be fine if it does that. It's on the right track. It just needs a bit of help.

[Ryan]

I really love the responses I'm reading. I can't say it enough, but it's nice to see these kinds of threads coming back to SON.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I don't know why it has always been Days' intention over the years to build strong supercouples, rather than strong characters as whole. This has really hurt them in the long run. It's almost impossible for the audience to think of Bo without Hope and Marlena without John. IMO, this is not the way it's supposed to be. These characters should've been better established ALONE, rather than in a couplings.

Even when the supercouple phenomena died in the late 80's/early 90's, Days continued to pursue supercoupling and adventure-type storytelling. Times were changing in the soap world, but Days refused to adjust to the times.

Look at GH, for example, that show arguably pioneered the supercpuple phenomena in the 80's, but by the 90's they tried to establish characters by themselves, rather than in couples. It worked out perfectly, because suddenly the audience could identify themselves with and love certain characters by themselves. GH also toned down the camp tremendously by the Riche/Labine era and it worked it extremely well, in the end. Days failed to do this, instead it amped up the camp value and went into a more preternatural direction, which should've never happened. GH, on the other hand, went in a more character-driven and socially relevant storytelling direction and the show remained consistent in terms of quality and ratings.

Then you have shows like Y&R and AMC, who did have popular couples, but they never let the coupling pairs outweigh the importance of the characters themselves. For most of the late 80's and well on into the 90's, these two shows were the #1 and #2 rated shows respectively. Bill Bell and Agnes Nixon never cared for the supercouple phenomena, instead they concentrated on making strong stand alone characters, not strong supercouples. Had Days done this or adjusted to the times like GH, it might not be in the situation it is in now.

[MikeGoldy]

I've wondered about this for a while and thought I would throw it out there. I really do think that even if DAYS somehow lost "the big four," it could survive. But then they would HAVE to use characters that they seem unwilling to put in front burner stories. Renee Jones could carry a story; Suzanne Rogers could carry a story; Julie Pinson could carry a story. But instead of imagining a show without John, Marlena, Bo, and Hope, how does the show use these characters, in order to create popular new ones? And I would embrace the fact that a majority of the audience doesn't want those couples separated, but totally do away with the supercouple concept once and for all. I think you can easily separate Shawn and Belle and Sami and Lucas, and that should have been done months ago. And for Steve and Kayla to work for the new audience, we need to see who they are in 2007, away from each other.

[daysfan]

Okay I've been reading this thread a bit and I feel it's time to throw my word in on the subject.

Days lived without supercouples once, and even though the fanbases are so supercouple-ized and fickle I feel it can live without them again. Yes it may seem ridiculous, but for nearly twenty years the show was focused on the whole show and not just mere couples. I find it sad how Days lives on couples, and how characters like Lucas are nothing without their other half of the couple.

Characters should be written for, not couples. It should be character driven not couple-driven. Because characters are something without having to be married to someone else. I'll use Lucas as an example. I find it sad how he has to be with Sami or Carrie's lackey to be interesting. If all these previous writers had written for CHARACTERS, he could have lived without Sami or Carrie. And he would be more enjoyable.

Now thirty years ago or so....you could have couples break up but the characters remain very loveable. Now? Not so much. Don and Marlena broke up and both were still very very likeable characters even though they were seperated.

Days doesn't need to live without the big four and S&K, they just need to write for them as characters and not couples.

[Pest Spray]

I do have a response to whoever said we need to see who they are apart... That's the thing about supercouples. We KNOW who they are apart from each other, that's why they work as couples. I love seeing Marlena with her friends or at work, John and Bo as cops, although Hope needs a job. But I want to see both. I want to see these two strong characters do their thing in their job and then go home to each other. Or, as I wish for John & Marlena, working together. John as a detective, with Marlena resuming profiling work like she did before. It'd be exciting. We would get to see them do what they're educated to do while still having the interraction between them as a couple. I don't see why there can't be both while still keeping them together.

Not the best example considering Don cheated on Marlena But I agree. They were very likable, although, I have a rough time watching Don after DJ's death. [!@#$%^&*] much?

[ArizonaDaze]

Boy, what great thoughts by everybody. Not much I can add but as a huge fan of Steve and Kayla back in the 80's I can safely say that I didn't give up on the show as a whole when Steve "died." Nor have I yet. I do think their return was poorly conceived regardless of the writer transition. Also characters such as Lucas (what a good example of non-development) that have no story outside of a couple is a real shame. It seems that although who we like or don't like may be miles apart, we all agree that good character development and story are critical. Does any longtime viewer (this goes back to the beginning of Days) remember when Tom Horton was on trial for malpractice (he didn't go see a patient and the patient died as I recall - because his daughter Marie had attempted suicide) We need compelling stories like that even today. Why couldn't one of the "golden children" get so depressed that they attempt suicide? Or sink into drugs? Because they are the "golden children." Yes, Lucas was an alcoholic, but because he wasn't really his own character, it wasn't utilized like it should have. I believe some of us viewers sink into coupledom because we don't have compelling stories to keep us interested beyond our favorites.

[Ponz]

It hasn't. With the possible exception of Cwickly/Brash, none of the writers or producers since 91 have invested in the supercouple concept. When Langan took over as Executvie Producer that year, he convinced Corday to "throw the supercouples off the top of a building". Shane and Kayla were paired up (then axed), Jack was turned into a buffoon and then written off, B&H and J&M spent much of the 90's involved in tawdry triangles. The fans are the only reason supercouples still exist. TPTB have freqeuntly tried to split them up but viewer outcry always forces them to relent.

IMO, a "strong supercouple" implies strong individual characters. The 80's supercouples were successful because both halves of the pairing were developed. It's writers who don't want strong couples that reduce one half to a "prop".

Excellent point.