Exactly. I hate Babe and I hate some of the dialogue that Krystal and Babe have but at least it makes sense that Krystal would always be on her daughters side. That is not propping. Bianca and her stupid need to excuse all of Babe's behaviour as love is propping. One person is nice to Zach other than Kendall and Bianca and it's propping. God forbid someone other than his wife say something nice about him. Compared to all the Ryan is hero dialogue that happnes almost daily in Pine Valley it's a joke that we're talking about Zach propping. Myrtle calls Zach on his [!@#$%^&*]. See the post blackout conversation for proof. She also told him he was being too stubborn when he wouldn't talk to Kendall during the Madden Murder Mystery. She didn't say you are 100% right and innocent and Kendall is evil like Bianca would with Babe/JR.

OMG Ryan's propping is probably the worst! Simply because that, regardless of them being family, Erin and Jonathan had/have EVERY SINGLE REASON IN THE WORLD to be mad at their loving brother who just left his two youngest siblings to be beaten and tossed around by their drunken father. But yet, Ryan is their hero.

Ryan blatantly mistreats Kendall to the point of making her out to be a b!tch because she couldn't forgive Greenlee for ripping her dress off in court and almost sending her to a lethal injection, and yet, he's noble.

Ryan tears a hotel room apart and raises his CLOSED FIST to Greenlee -- and yet, two women rearrange their entire LIVES so they can create a baby from his sperm.

But that's all okay.

Myrtle says, "Zach, you love your wife. Let her support you," and all of a sudden, there's an outcry of propping?!?

Now, when it comes to Zach, name at least FOUR people who have absolutely NO reason to say anything nice about him, but go out of their way to do it anyway -- and then I might be able to see why there would be a problem with Zach propping. But if Myrtle is the only person out of Zach's immediate orbit that is being nice to him, I hardly consider that being a prop.

Wait a second...I never said that Zach has multiple props. I just said that I consider Myrtle a prop. What is Myrtle's friendship with Zach based on? Honestly? I don't buy their friendship one bit. And that's just how it is.

And come on, you can HARDLY call Jeff a prop. If being a prop for one particular ocassion makes you a lifelong prop, well then, the whole show is full of props.

Myrtle says, "Zach, you love your wife. Let her support you," and all of a sudden, there's an outcry of propping?!?

I state my VERY OWN OPINION that I think Myrtle is there as a Zach prop, and there's an outcry of people knocking down the door to tell me that my opinion is wrong?!

Damn, it's perfectly fine to hate Ryan and Babe, yet god forbid ANYONE said a damn thing about Zach. I agree with whoever said that he's become the Sonny of this show.

Changing the subject: I am not exactly loving Babe these days but I liked how she was there for Zarf/Zoe....that was nice of Babe when she said 'Come here Zoe' and they shared a hug

I honestly can`t remember how or why the 'Zyrtle" friendship originated either . She is the only character imo who brings out the twinkly charm I glimpsed in Zach before he married Kendall . I see the validity of seeing Myrtle as his sounding board but I also think she often strays into the " propping" territory too with her references to Zach`s virtues of loyalty etc . I think she has also often referred to his being a " good" man on several occasions . Sounding boards rarely compliment so effusively .

I also think the friendship is important to the writers . She is the only character to whom Zach is unfailingly polite and pleasant . He treats her like a beloved great aunt that he has known all his life . There is nothing wrong with that but it is markedly noticeable and I doubt accidental . Myrtle`s role has been to encourage Zendall over hurdles & point out the hidden nobleness of Zach`s character imo.

Edited January 6, 200718 yr by skyejames

I state my VERY OWN OPINION that I think Myrtle is there as a Zach prop, and there's an outcry of people knocking down the door to tell me that my opinion is wrong?!

Damn, it's perfectly fine to hate Ryan and Babe, yet god forbid ANYONE said a damn thing about Zach.

Exactly. Good to see you're finally getting it.

Oh, please, it's not that at all.

That's the quirky little catch-22 with opinions -- we're ALL entitled to our own. And sometimes... sometimes... we're entitled to our own opinions about your opinion. BLASPHEMY!! I know! eek! But that's the way things go.

Don't be so sensitive. Nobody's saying your opinion is WRONG -- some of us are just disagreeing and giving OUR reasons for doing so, as well as stating our opinion about the same situation you're being opinionated about. You can't be that naive. Zach fans are ferocious. You couldn't have possibly thought, hmmmm... let me not only speak against the Zach character, but also trivialize the only friendship he has on this show and have NOBODY take an issue with what I write... Could you?

Derek needs to be shot

by Emma.

LMAO! I am so picturing Dolls now after all this...what a storyline that would be for daytime!

Anyway, I miss the Lily/Zach friendship We haven't seen that one in awhile.

I see the validity of seeing Myrtle as his sounding board but I also think she often strays into the " propping" territory too with her references to Zach`s virtues of loyalty etc .

Exactly. Thank you. It's not so much that Myrtle compliments Zach as much as it is WHY she compliments him. What are her reasons for knowing that he's good? For knowing that he's loyal? And it's been like that right out of the bat. Myrtle never thought him to be suspicious or anything. First time they met, she was all about how good and loyal he was.

That's the quirky little catch-22 with opinions -- we're ALL entitled to our own. And sometimes... sometimes... we're entitled to our own opinions about your opinion. BLASPHEMY!! I know! ohmy.gif eek! But that's the way things go.

Well, I hope you feel better, you know, getting your opinion out there and all. I put mine out there because I was directly talking about the episode, but you guys put yours out there because you didn't like what I said.

You couldn't have possibly thought, hmmmm... let me not only speak against the Zach character, but also trivialize the only friendship he has on this show and have NOBODY take an issue with what I write... Could you?

Oh, I'm sorry. Please forgive me. I really thought that this was SON...you know, where people can indeed speak their thoughts about a particular soapy subject without other people jumping on you telling you that your thoughts aren't right. And honestly, I couldn't care less about the ferocity of Zach fans. I ain't one of 'em.

Please, let's just end this. Really, there's no point in going back and forth.

Ryan's the one who needs to DIE! I hate the [!@#$%^&*] [!@#$%^&*]! For him to even suggest Kendall stay away from Spike is ludicrous. I didn't see anyone taking Emma away from Annie when Terry the pedophile was after Annie & Emma.

Ryan brushed off Kendall's fears about Terry, and he does this? I don't think so

DIE RYAN DIE!

ITA: Ryan is bully who always thinks he is right.. I love Zack and Kendall . I also love Zack with Myrtal. I am enjoying seeing why Zack has to rescue every female around. I think i would enjoy it a heck of alot more without the stupid serial killer storyline. As far as Emma Ryan sold his rights to her when he took money for the sperm. Annie doesn't want to know who the donor is so Kendall is under no obligation to tell her. Zarf the most interesting thing: was watching him trying to walk in heels. He was staggering all over the place. Erica I enjoyed the New Year Eve revenge stunt until she called Jeff that was just juvenile. I can't stand Babe or Krysatl.

Edited January 6, 200718 yr by cat68

Yeah, you can't stand Zach -- and I can't stand Babe. But as much as I despise that slut, I'm able to indentify her sounding boards/talk to characters from her propping characters.

Sounding Board

Krystal - her mother, so that's natural

Amanda - I can "buy" their friendship, bonding over Janet

Josh - he's obsessed with her

JR - he's the one responsible for bringing this trash to the show.

ex-David - her father

Props

Bianca - Babe is Love. End of Story

Tad - Supports BIL theory even though she's betrayed both of his "sons"

Jeff - Comes to town and two days later is defending Babe against ERICA for a son he never even knew?

Adam - Knows Babe is a whore and has betrayed his son countless times, but continues to sing her praises to JR? Please.

Now, when it comes to Zach, name at least FOUR people who have absolutely NO reason to say anything nice about him, but go out of their way to do it anyway -- and then I might be able to see why there would be a problem with Zach propping. But if Myrtle is the only person out of Zach's immediate orbit that is being nice to him, I hardly consider that being a prop.

THANK YOU! Complete and total WORD!

So Erica's friends with Myrtle and Opal, so does that mean they're propping her as well?

Exactly. I hate Babe and I hate some of the dialogue that Krystal and Babe have but at least it makes sense that Krystal would always be on her daughters side. That is not propping. Bianca and her stupid need to excuse all of Babe's behaviour as love is propping. One person is nice to Zach other than Kendall and Bianca and it's propping. God forbid someone other than his wife say something nice about him. Compared to all the Ryan is hero dialogue that happnes almost daily in Pine Valley it's a joke that we're talking about Zach propping. Myrtle calls Zach on his [!@#$%^&*]. See the post blackout conversation for proof. She also told him he was being too stubborn when he wouldn't talk to Kendall during the Madden Murder Mystery. She didn't say you are 100% right and innocent and Kendall is evil like Bianca would with Babe/JR.

WORD!

I actually have to disagree about Amanda, mostly because there was NO buildup to their "Friendship" especially since Babe brought Amanda to Fusion knowing that Simone was still hurting from Janet having killed Ethan at the MGB.

Edited January 6, 200718 yr by AMC Zendall Fan

Well, I hope you feel better, you know, getting your opinion out there and all. I put mine out there because I was directly talking about the episode, but you guys put yours out there because you didn't like what I said.

I do feel better, thanks for caring. And yes, I didn't like what you said, and I expressed why. Life is grand!

Oh, I'm sorry. Please forgive me. I really thought that this was SON...you know, where people can indeed speak their thoughts about a particular soapy subject without other people jumping on you telling you that your thoughts aren't right.

OMG! Whyyyyyyyy do you keep singing this tune? WHO jumped on you? You made a statement, some people disagreed and discussed their points of view! That was it! Hate to break it to you, but it's going to happen again at least one or two more times during your time here on this or any other DISCUSSION BOARD.

And honestly, I couldn't care less about the ferocity of Zach fans. I ain't one of 'em.

There's a news flash.

Please, let's just end this. Really, there's no point in going back and forth.

If there's no point, then... um... why did you even respond? I'm sorry, I keep forgetting. You don't like to be disagreed with. Sorry, toots. If you're going to respond to something I've posted, just assume I'm going to reply. That's for future reference... you know, in case you want to respond to this and tell me you just want to end it.

Anyway moving on.

I'm mad that Babe can't get a manicure or something. Those little nubby nails she has the nerve to paint get on my last nerve. She's making money and married to money. She can't take her ass over to Star Nails and get some acryllic tips?

Ryan was an ass. I mean, really. He's been all but absent in Spike's life for months, and NOW he's going to start making decisions by himself without even discussing it with Kendall? Yeah, let's take Spike out of the condo with security and bodyguards 24/7 and let him stay with daddy and his lunatic, homicidal, pedophile brother -- and his new pedophile magnet girlfriend who is as dull as a box of rocks.

It's hilarious to even THINK that Bianca, a lesbian, has never heard of a transgendered person. I mean, I will allow the fact that Pine Valley is the town that time forgot -- but Bianca has been living abroad for a year. We're supposed to believe this young, corporate, cosmopolitan lesbian woman has never heard of people being transgendered? I mean, does she even know what GLBT stands for?

I'm with everyone wondering why Jonadick wasn't brought up on assault charges. Did I mention how much I abhor this character and think Jeff Branson is a notch BELOW Jacob Young? YIKES!

I can't even feel sorry for Jonathan, all I can think is now he knows how his victims families felt and what they went through.

See I don't see how Spike is safer with Ryan & Annie, do they have guards on duty 24/7? Do they have the security at the PH updated? Cause if David Hayward can get in and kidnap Emma without anyone seeing him then how is Spike any safer Just paint a big bullseye on that poor kid if he stays with Ryass

I really cannot stand Jonathan either. Its really pathetic how now he is screaming from the rooftops that someone needs to pay for his sister's death meanwhile he goes free for killing Edmund. Makes zero sense and the typical hypocritical and contradictory writing Megan McTavish is known for. Its sad, Jeff Brasnon's talents are being wasted.

I do sort of wonder if they are setting Spike up to be kidnapped by the killer. In a real life situation, I would say Spike is much safer away from Kendall just because she's the main target. A killer who is fixated on women isn't likely to go after a baby, unless he is just in the wrong place at the wrong time, imo. But this is AMC not Criminal Minds, so who knows? Seems like the writers must have had a reason to move Spike. Maybe the killer will kidnap him and bargain to get Kendall or something.

One question, I have. Emma wasn't kidnapped from the penthouse was she? Wasn't she at Erin's or is that the same place? I thought Ryan said they were moving "back" to the penthouse? Anyway, it seems like Ryan/Zack will make sure they have security and bodyguards there too.

Any attempt at redeeming Jon seems wasted now. He's coming off as such an ass. Not even a moment of reflection about his own victims and karma. Although, I have no idea where this whole "pedophile" thing is coming from. Jon never touched Lily and she was far from a child physically. I thought his love for Lily made him much more likable as long as it stayed platonic. Now I just cannot stand him, even with Amanda.

Yep she was kidnapped from the PH, that's where Erin was living.