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DAYS/ATWT: Is Hogan Sheffer a habitual liar?

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1.) Do you think that Hogan Sheffer was lying when he said that he LOVED Abe and Lexie and planned a big storyline for them (along with J&M etc)?

Oh yeah! Hogan "loves" everyone. "I love Scotty Holmes, who plays Tom." Rarely used throughout Sheffer's 5 years. He called Lucinda "Hurricane Lucinda" and promised to use her a lot. He had her drugged in 2001 and neglected her thereafter. He's so full of it. The only person he never claimed to "love" was Eileen Fulton, who was so vocally anti-Sheffer in the press that it would've come off as ridiculous.

2.) Do you think that in interviews/previews that he gives, Hogie just tells fans what they want to hear, rather than what he intends to write? Is he just a salesman or is he sincere in what he says in his interviews?

He CAN be honest. He eventually did come out and say, "Where's the Tom and Margo story? I don't know." But being honest about your faults doesn't work when you do nothing to improve them.

3.) For people familiar with HS' work at ATWT, if you can, do you recall whether Hogan Sheffer overhyped his stories in the spoilers he gave in soap mag interviews? Do you recall an occasion where HS gave a spoiler in one of his interviews that did not come true?

All of his spoilers for 2004 failed to come to fruition, BUT to be fair, that was due to Barbara Bloom's interference. He had fully intended to do all the storylines he promised. The sad thing is, the storylines he promised actually did start and were actually pretty good, then they were scrapped and we got Doc Reese and the Keys to the Kingdom. 2004 was the worst year of his tenure, and I imagine it had something to do with his departure.

4.) Did he lie to soap magazines about the direction of ATWT stories? Did he have a habit of lying to soap magazines, which lead ATWT fans to not trust what he had to say in his interviews?

"I hate David Stenbeck. He always comes back from the dead. I had Julia empty a .45 into him because I don't like these omniscient villians." - Not verbatim. And what happens? James Stenbeck becomes an omniscient, omnipresent villian.

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Not all DAYS fans are stupid, but I totally see why you made that statement. It seems more and more fans that actually speak out about the show are only invested in certain characters and couples, and b!tch and moan when they aren't shown 5 days a week, 365 days a year. I will take what Hogan and his crew have done in almost three months' time then the last SEVERAL months of JER. Despite some flaws with writing of certain characters (especially Hope and Shawn), and the continuing presence of Swillow, we have gotten more family interaction, the flashbacks of what happened five minutes ago are gone, and several characters have smartened up and matured.

I also think it's downright dumb to keep comparing Hogan's writing at ATWT to what he's been doing at DAYS. Both shows have a different vibe and a different approach to storytelling.

We can criticize Hogan and his writers for the quality and direction of the stories and characters, but we can't blame him or them for who is fired and hired. That lies with Corday and the other higher-ups at DAYS.

I so agree. Days fans were already starting on Hogan two weeks in and it has only gotten worse. Magic won't happen overnight and he is at least given us a well-written, faster-paced, well put together episodes and the stories are good but not in total gear yet. The vets are being used logically and consitently and the acting has been great. It has flaws and isn't perfect but it's pretty damn good. The fact that some on the net are asking why JER was let go solidifies to me that the majority of fans involved in fanbases don't care about quality. They expect results overnight and that can't happen. The show was a mess and still has work to do. The fanbases need to give it a rest because there is no reason to already judge a writer after a month and a half. Days can't be compared to ATWT regardless of whether or not a writer changes his style or not. ATWT fans said he never used the vets. Yes, that is true and I recall that from watching but he has used Victor, Caroline, Shawn Sr, Maggie, etc alot and while it's early that says alot. Plus, the writing team at Days knows who needs to on and who to focus on so it is not going to be as it was at ATWT. Hogan and Meg have done their homework and utilize the history alot.

People need to remember that Corday is the EP, not Hogan. Hogan may have been just as blindsided as RJ was. Just like he wanted to write for MA and had something planned for him most likely, the same was probably the case for Lexie and any others who may get fired. Things change but it doesn't make Hogan a lair. TPTB all lie in some ways. In fact, most people lie nowadays so I don't take every word anyone says as gospel. Hogan was excited as any new HW would be about an opportunity like this. He probablt beleived what he said then and that he was speaking the truth so he does not deserve to be blamed for any of their firings or to be trashed so much early on.

  • Member
EVERYONE PLEASE GO TO THE POLL FORUM AND VOTE! THESE HOAGIE THREADS ARE MAKING MY FACE HURT.

:huh:

  • Member

I never saw his work on ATWT so I can't comment on that. All I know is that the show has improved 100% since JER left. I think he is slowly turning around the show and getting the characters back to making sense again. I think he has decided to take the characters where JER left them, and try to slowly lead them toward the direction he will be taking them. He could have abruptly changed everything, and maybe some of the fans would be happier with that. Personally, I like that he didn't do that. It is requiring some patience on the viewers part, but I can see that the characters are beginning to make sense again. I'm willing to give him a lot more time before i judge him. Right now, I'm excited about the increased family interactions, the cop stuff, Nick Fallon, and excited to see where the EJ Wells story is going. I also like that Sami is growing up, the young people are dealing with job and money issues, Victor is being used more, and Marlena and John are back to normal. I also don't mind Steve/Billie because I'm sure that Kayla and Steve will be back together. I have never minded my favorite couples being apart as long as I was sure they still loved each other. I feel that STeve/Kayla will reunite when Steve gets his memory back.

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  • Member

Thanks Tzelkos, winterguy 125, Steve Frame, P.J., Dan and juppiter for your insight of what HS has done in the past. I know it must be annoying for some here that I keep referring to what Hogie did at ATWT, but as a few have mentioned, a writer doesn't change their style that much. I think it's better for Days' fans to know what to expect from him, based upon the opinion of people who are most familiar with his style of writing from his stint at ATWT. If HS wrote for another soap other than ATWT, I would ask these same questions to those viewers too. I'm just trying to get a read on him, so just bear with me....

People had certain expectations when he first came on board, b/c he was new, b/c he was a 4-time Emmy winner. He hasn't fulfilled the expectations that they built of him, so they've become even more dispirited than if they knew nothing about some new no name headwriter that came to Days and thus had no expectations of him.

IMHO, it's better for Days' fans to know what to expect rather than to be in limbo, not knowing what is going on with their fave characters/couples. It's really been devastating to read some posts at places like the Silver Link, Sony's Days board, Soapcentral, mediadomain, even Dustin's Thoughts of the Week board and see how disappointed these fans are. I noticed at the Silver Link that some posters sought opinions from ATWT viewers as to what to expect from Hogie in the Bo/Hope storyline. They know the spoilers already, but they don't understand how the show is going to go from A to B. Same deal on the Sony board but for Steve and Kayla. The majority of J&M fans want more airtime and to see their couple make love on screen.

With different people from various fanbases asking the same underlying question--what should they expect from HS as a writer--I thought it was important to take advantage of SON, as the place where fans of various shows post, to ask these provocative questions and to get insight from previous ATWT fans in particular.....

  • Member

Ademption, it's too early for anyone to be disappointed in anything but what has happened so far. Those other boards are fueled by fanbases and they are just ticked that their couples aren't together. The J&M fans complaining stuns me because they have really had it pretty good. I don't know what else they want. J&M making love is nice but they should be happy they got good story right now. The fanbases needs to be patient and realize that they will get what they want when it is meant to happen in a logical and reasonable manner. Forcing it would be a waste and stupid. Things need to be followed up on. I can see if they find the show lacking in excitement but to be angry about the couples not being together right now should be the last thing worried about right now. The writing has improved big time and things will pick up so those fans should just be patient and remember how bad they had it the last 3 years or so.

A writer's style is influenced by where he is employed and it is clear Corday will interfere at times and alot of writers on staff know Days and the characters so it's unfair to know what to expect on Days based on ATWT. I don't care if some things are the same or what. It's not valid only a month and a half in. Days and ATWT are different and have different situations. Hogan acknowledged this fact himself. People's expectations were too high off the bat. I knoew Hogan was going to have to integrate and work on characters and get things going regardless of the GW and Beth and all that. I can't understand why some fans choose to forget the last 4-5 years of subpar storytelling and then go after Hogan like he is worse then JER.

  • Member

Well Phoenix it was hard for people to not have high expectations when half of the Days fans were so excited just hearing he was coming and building it up - as I refer to that he was the "second coming" or the "Savior". Fans were saying Days would take over Bold & the Beautiful by November sweeps. And then they were told to be patient that things were really going to get kicking in November, and Hogan was so exciting in his interviews. It got people's expectaions up. I think there was just so much hype and people's expectations of things have just been let down big time.

And then hearing that they are losing another fave, and that one of the most hated new characters got a contract, and that other pink slips are coming - have not helped at all.

  • Member

DAYS was in more of a mess than ATWT was when Sheffer took over. ATWT wasn't actually horrible under Laiman, it was just reeeeeally boring and reeeeeally stupid. But it wasn't like unwatchably bad. I agree that Sheffer deserves a chance, even though I just made a really negative post about him. He has good qualities... Stay tuned to Days, definitely.

  • Member

No one is voting in the poll in the poll center. Boo you all!

  • Author
  • Member
Ademption, it's too early for anyone to be disappointed in anything but what has happened so far. Those other boards are fueled by fanbases and they are just ticked that their couples aren't together. The J&M fans complaining stuns me because they have really had it pretty good. I don't know what else they want. J&M making love is nice but they should be happy they got good story right now. The fanbases needs to be patient and realize that they will get what they want when it is meant to happen in a logical and reasonable manner. Forcing it would be a waste and stupid. Things need to be followed up on. I can see if they find the show lacking in excitement but to be angry about the couples not being together right now should be the last thing worried about right now. The writing has improved big time and things will pick up so those fans should just be patient and remember how bad they had it the last 3 years or so.

A writer's style is influenced by where he is employed and it is clear Corday will interfere at times and alot of writers on staff know Days and the characters so it's unfair to know what to expect on Days based on ATWT. I don't care if some things are the same or what. It's not valid only a month and a half in. Days and ATWT are different and have different situations. Hogan acknowledged this fact himself. People's expectations were too high off the bat. I knoew Hogan was going to have to integrate and work on characters and get things going regardless of the GW and Beth and all that. I can't understand why some fans choose to forget the last 4-5 years of subpar storytelling and then go after Hogan like he is worse then JER.

At the end of the day, these fanbases make up a good portion of the show's audience. If they don't like the product that Days is selling, then they're simply not going to watch the show and the ratings are going to remain where they are now. There's an unmet demand for certain things from these fanbases and if the demand isn't met, then these fans are more than willing to bail and to stop buying the product/discontinue watching the show.

Days has to meet the demands of the fans that it has, not the fans that it wishes it has in order to survive. At the very least, the show's press people need to communicate VERY CLEARLY how characters are going to get from A to B. These fans aren't buying the line X couple will be together soon. The trust factor isn't there. The credibility is gone. If Days wants to get some fans that belong to some of these disenchanted fanbases back to watching the show, then there needs to be better communication in unambiguous terms what's going to happen to their faves. Better yet, throw 'em a bone or something to make them happy. People dissatisfied with the direction of the show/their faves/their couple aren't going to watch the show.

If J&M fans are entertained by seeing their fave couple make love once a week, then TPTB need to meet them half way. Same deal with the other fanbases. Give them what they want and hopefully they'll begin to watch the show again.

  • Member

Yeah well that was fan created hype and the show is doing what it said it would. It's just not what the fanbases thought. They thought it would all happen overnight and it hasn't but it will. Hogan was giving his plans but it isn't his or Days' fault that some thought one day everything would be status quo and the next day it would be all cleaned up. The fans decided to beleive in that themselves while some didn't and knew time would be needed, like us at SON. As for Days beating B&B, that was logical at the time because Days was hovering around 2.7 and many payoffs hadn't happened yet (Claire's paternity, J&J, Sami being exposed, etc) and Hogan hadn't even started yet. I knew many fans would've cared less about the end of JER's stories but I think most thought Days would still be at least around 2.7 when all that was done. Hogan got Days up to 2.6 his first week but then fans didn't stick around to see him start getting things set up where he needed them. This week's ratings for last week will be huge for the show since last week was solid so we'll see. At the time, B&B was around 3.0 and people were (and in some ways still are) down on the show so it was logical to think that. We'll see.

The casting news hasn't helped but if Days makes the casting coups it clearly wants then it will negate some of that. I just think it is too early to get on Hogan like so much of the net is doing. It's not like the show hasn't made strides in his first 6 weeks or so.

At the end of the day, these fanbases make up a good portion of the show's audience. If they don't like the product that Days is selling, then they're simply not going to watch the show and the ratings are going to remain where they are now. There's an unmet demand for certain things from these fanbases and if the demand isn't met, then these fans are more than willing to bail and to stop buying the product/discontinue watching the show.

Days has to meet the demands of the fans that it has, not the fans that it wishes it has in order to survive. At the very least, the show's press people need to communicate VERY CLEARLY how characters are going to get from A to B. These fans aren't buying the line X couple will be together soon. The trust factor isn't there. The credibility is gone. If Days wants to get some fans that belong to some of these disenchanted fanbases back to watching the show, then there needs to be better communication in unambiguous terms what's going to happen to their faves. Better yet, throw 'em a bone or something to make them happy. People dissatisfied with the direction of the show/their faves/their couple aren't going to watch the show.

If J&M fans are entertained by seeing their fave couple make love once a week, then TPTB need to meet them half way. Same deal with the other fanbases. Give them what they want and hopefully they'll begin to watch the show again.

I get it ademption. I know Days has to cater to fanbases and I hate it but I know that they need them. However, the fanbases need to meet the show halfway too and be patient and continue to watch. They were on Hogan after two weeks and fail to acknowledge the work needed to improve the show and how long it will take. The fanbases should be more willing to give the show a chance because it's a new regime and it takes time to see what is going to happen and go on. Already calling for a guy's head is irrational and the kind of thing they should not be doing. That is my point. There is communcation but the fanbases need to understand that things take time and just because something is said doesn't mean it will happen right away. They really expected things to change overnight and that isn't possible. Trust needs to be rebuilt but the fanbases need to meet them halfway and stick with the show until the kinks get worked out. That is what a fan of the show would do but the majority are couple or character fans and don't give a care about quality as long as there couples are on screen and together. I wish more were like us at SON because I hate that Days' future lies on some of these people already all over Hogan but it's reality and I just hope things change. That is why I am dying to see last week's numbers because there should be improvement.

  • Member
At the end of the day, these fanbases make up a good portion of the show's audience. If they don't like the product that Days is selling, then they're simply not going to watch the show and the ratings are going to remain where they are now. There's an unmet demand for certain things from these fanbases and if the demand isn't met, then these fans are more than willing to bail and to stop buying the product/discontinue watching the show.

Days has to meet the demands of the fans that it has, not the fans that it wishes it has in order to survive. At the very least, the show's press people need to communicate VERY CLEARLY how characters are going to get from A to B. These fans aren't buying the line X couple will be together soon. The trust factor isn't there. The credibility is gone. If Days wants to get some fans that belong to some of these disenchanted fanbases back to watching the show, then there needs to be better communication in unambiguous terms what's going to happen to their faves. Better yet, throw 'em a bone or something to make them happy. People dissatisfied with the direction of the show/their faves/their couple aren't going to watch the show.

If J&M fans are entertained by seeing their fave couple make love once a week, then TPTB need to meet them half way. Same deal with the other fanbases. Give them what they want and hopefully they'll begin to watch the show again.

Absolutely right on, ademption. Not many viewers care about the detailed writer concerns. The bottom line is all that matters. Entertain me with what I feel good about and want more of and Hogan hasn't done very well with that. Most viewers want to laugh and cry, feel for the character and moved to connect with the character. Not a lot of that going on either. Trying to hook Sami up with EJ is probably not going over well with the general public either. I think Hogan needs to take a check into how the broad range of fans are feeling and not those who understand the machinations.

  • Member
The casting news hasn't helped but if Days makes the casting coups it clearly wants then it will negate some of that. I just think it is too early to get on Hogan like so much of the net is doing. It's not like the show hasn't made strides in his first 6 weeks or so.

Phoenix, I fear for Days even with the casting coups it is hoping to make - esp. with Kristen. If they do not have a plan for Kristen other than to bring her in as interloper in the John & Marlena story then another fan base is going to be ticked off at the show. And Days cannot afford to make another fan base made right now. You know I agree with you about the fan bases to a great extent, but Days unfortunately created them and has used them so often in the past, that they unfortunately have to deal with them now until they can change them again.

Sure there are going to be many who will be happy about Kristen's return - that is the Kristen fan base. And yes she has a good sized one. But to me as much as I loved Kristen, she was a lot like Billee in that her story only revolved around John - first it was John & Tony/Andre and then with John & Marlena. I see that being her purpose again when she returns. I personally would love Anna back more because she had ties to more characters in town and was written in such a way that she could have so much more to do now. But I doubt very highly now that Anna will return. Esp. since Eileen is available and they will bend over backwards to get her back.

I just hope that Hogan has more in mind for her than coming back to just to get John back.

  • Member

I seriously am beginning to think that "some" DAYS viewers are just so overhwelmed by how good DAYS has become...that now that ONE negative thing has popped up (an actor's exit)...they're screamin' that something's GOT to be wrong with the headwriter. Kinda like when women see some men and think "Ooohh...he's hot!" but then turn around and think "He must be gay."

Get my drift?

  • Member
At the end of the day, these fanbases make up a good portion of the show's audience. If they don't like the product that Days is selling, then they're simply not going to watch the show and the ratings are going to remain where they are now. There's an unmet demand for certain things from these fanbases and if the demand isn't met, then these fans are more than willing to bail and to stop buying the product/discontinue watching the show.

Days has to meet the demands of the fans that it has, not the fans that it wishes it has in order to survive. At the very least, the show's press people need to communicate VERY CLEARLY how characters are going to get from A to B. These fans aren't buying the line X couple will be together soon. The trust factor isn't there. The credibility is gone. If Days wants to get some fans that belong to some of these disenchanted fanbases back to watching the show, then there needs to be better communication in unambiguous terms what's going to happen to their faves. Better yet, throw 'em a bone or something to make them happy. People dissatisfied with the direction of the show/their faves/their couple aren't going to watch the show.

If J&M fans are entertained by seeing their fave couple make love once a week, then TPTB need to meet them half way. Same deal with the other fanbases. Give them what they want and hopefully they'll begin to watch the show again.

These fanbase viewers are not going to be happy untill their couples are married, have no obstacles, and are boring. Then they will [!@#$%^&*] that their couple is boring. Then they will [!@#$%^&*] even more so when the show has nothing to do with them but write them out because they've been forced to keep them sitting on the couch together knitting for fear of angering the fanbases. Shows cannot cater to these people as their expectations are unreasonable!

Why does Days need to communicate in big boldassed letters where their characters are going? Watch the freakin' show and see how and where they progress like they did before the internet and its over-spoiling of EVERYTHING. What is the point of even watching if we just went to those, again, unreasonable people and said "by years end, Bo and Hope will renew their vows, learn the baby is theirs, and Hope will love Chelsea as if she was Zack, they're then going to buy a bigger house - move all their families in with them, make some tea, then go shopping for a bit at Salem Place, then Hope will decide she wants to be a model again, then Patrick will kill her, then Billie will [!@#$%^&*] Bo, then Bo and Billie will get married, bla bla bla bla ..." I might as well be reading the cliffnotes to a book and not bother with the show!

A good drama, and especially a good soap, is supposed to keep you slightly in the dark and pull you along with the story as our characters experience it on screen. Just tune to Passions for the perfect example of what giving the audience all the cards is like - boring, repetitive, and infuriating watching such stupid people not grasp such simple things.

John and Marlena fans just got Smokey Freakin' Robinson, and an adventure to Canada, and soon to Italy! They need to STFU!

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