Gray Bunny

The threshold of toxicity has lowered considerably in recent years when it comes to reunions. RHONY Season 4 Reunion is a breath of fresh air compared to last night.

Yeah, I'll definitely check OC out, and the whole breaking-the-fourth-wall with COVID etc. does intrigue me. Just not sure this cast is very strong. It's a good thing it'll be a shorter season. But who knows? Maybe I'll be eating my words and love the change.

Boy was THAT a stretch! LOL Aside from some of the cute, bubbly moments, this episode was toxic and ugly. Rinna's quest for fame and notoriety will kill all her friendships in her path towards universal acceptance, which will never happen. She was feeling herself after her good first season (Season 5) and has been desperately trying to cling on to that feeling ever since. Like a drug addict. Love Garcelle coming for low-budget Dynasty wannabe Kyle, with Kyle stammering to come up with a decent retort. Pretty Mess's faux outrage that Denise was trying to target her, Sutton, and Teddi as the bad people after the incident with the kids hearing about blowjobs was outrageous and made no sense. That was exhausting. I'm glad we have Potomac and NYC to give us life and light. 100%. She's an ugly monster at this point.

Meh... Too many "B" characters. It's one thing when you had Nene or Bethenny or even LVP leave, but the remaining cast still had heavy-hitters. OC with Vicki and Tamra gone is like taking both Teresa and Melissa off NJ... (OMG, did I just give Melissa Gorga a compliment? Crazy times)

Brandi is saying what we here have been dishing for years...

Wow...

NYC: [Side note, I rewatched the infamous "Jovani!" episode last night, so I hope that doesn't cloud my memory of current-day NYC...] I thought last night's episode was fun. Gosh, the view from Ramona's new place is amazing. I loved how the OG's dressed for uptown but the event is downtown in every way. Loved seeing Sonja getting frisky with all the younger black men. I wonder if she got lucky that night? Ramona's "I don't know her" to Elyse was hilarious. Elyse has had some good moments, bad moments, or just non-factor moments, but she looked pretty desperate to make a scene (i.e. snatch her apple) and have an altercation with Ramona. I think Ramona actually handled it pretty well for Ramona being Ramona, and she called and apologized to Leah the next day for leaving. Last night's Dorinda (aside from the minor tiff about cell phones at the table) was the Dorinda I knew and loved... funny, jovial, wise-cracking but not mean, life of the party. That's the Dorinda I'll miss. Re: "The Bitch is Back!" I would actually love to have Jill back. It's too bad so much footage of her was taken out when she was around in a Friend-Of capacity these past couple years. And if she becomes an entitled monster behind the scenes again, cut her loose again. Otherwise, a return of Ramona vs. Jill would be hilarious. They've hung out together numerous times and even vacationed together since, so I don't think their eventual fighting would be dark and ugly like before.

Lipsa is just a huge turd, through and through. I used to always find the silver lining in her mindgame f#ckery, usually because of her soap past that I am endeared to, but she's past the point of no return. #CancelRinna I am here for anyone calling out Kyle. Pink called; she wants her hair color back. Argh at Denise having a slip-up and not remembering her own comment about having said even worse things about Suzanne Somers' less popular replacement on Three's Company, but overall, she kicks ass. This looks toxic and not in a fun way.

Reports are now saying Dorinda was fired, and that her reunion was a mess and she didn't take accountability for any of her behavior. But they also said it was kind of a mutual parting of ways, so it sounds similar to a Vicki Gulvanson situation.

Perfect description 😍

I don't know what NYC's demos are like, but I feel like they promote the show in more of a hot drunken Golden Girls kind of way. Like, we know they're all a bit older, but they're wild and carefree and don't hold back. And the Golden Girls are always trendy, for both young and old! lol

UPDATE: Well, hubby was able to get us out of committing to plans with Diana and Carlo this past Friday. On Saturday, I saw postings from Diana and Brenda, with Diana attending Brenda's at-home birthday bash with her closest girlfriends [I'm sure no new sex contracts were signed on that night, lol]. I still have yet to see Diana ever hang out with anyone outside of Carlo's world of friends. She never gave my hubby an answer or response regarding making plans for this weekend, when she's free (but Carlo is out of town). I think I might just reach out separately and act naive and ask what she's up to this weekend. "I heard you might be free?" [no pun intended].

NYC: Wow, I have mixed emotions on Dorinda leaving. On one hand, she dug her own grave. I know some people here say she's been nasty since day one (going for Heather in her first year, etc.) but I pretty much enjoyed everything about her until her 4th season and it's been a steady decline ever since. I'll miss the good years, the fun, funny, and quirky one-liners (back when they were organic -- CLIP!) I haven't read the gossip regarding the other women, but I think they're focusing on the wrong Housewives show to gut and reboot (hint: Beverly Hills is in desperate need of a reset, but their ratings say otherwise, sadly). So when you have lower ratings and the execs want younger demos and all the ladies are full generation older than the one newbie (Leah), old heads will roll. It would be strange to see RHONY without Ramona admittedly. Just as we had Luann/Ramona/Sonja to anchor the reboot of Season 5, it would be hard to see them do it all over again with just Lu and Sonja as the OG's. But we'll see what develops. Get Jill back. Get Heather back. Bring someone from the past back to help with what sounds like will be a transitional year. POTOMAC: So far, I'm not totally feeling the new girl. The shade towards Karen for not having sex with her husband is too hard too soon. We've barely seen she and Karen even talk, so why the hate? Is this another Carlton case (BH, her immediate disdain of Kyle) where the new girl has been instructed to target a person right off the bat? It feels orchestrated. +1 on the love for Gizelle's friend Kal. Also, I forget who here has mentioned him twice already (but I know you'll speak up!), but I'll give a late +1 to Monique's beautiful gay younger brother. Those eyes... Candaice is trying to be like Camille, saying all these shady things on Twitter and social media about her co-stars and then acting like it was all innocent in person. Candaice, you are no Miss Donatacci Grammer-Meyer and it's not working for me. That said, Gizelle desperately needs to get a landscaper out to her new home and put some life into that exterior space. It looks lifeless and rundown. I suppose if you're aiming to keep burglars away, thinking it's a dump on the inside too, then it's working. BH: Glad for Garcelle's new gig, but I echo the sentiments in hoping she's not a one-and-done as a result.

I think she would remain mostly silent while we spoke before responding. However, I've never seen her in a position to be completely enraged, or defensive. She can be very deep about some aspects, and very surface/shallow on other aspects, so I'm not sure of her reaction. Early 30's. I think some sort of discussion, whether it be directly or indirectly about the real situation is going to happen very soon. If not this weekend, then next weekend. It's one of those things where we don't want to poke the bear, but we can't keep sidestepping the issue here. It's going to be awkward. I haven't dug too far into Carlo, but one of our girlfriends is like the queen of gossip in this town. We got her starting to investigate... LOL Tune in next time!

Thank you and yes, the idea of ticking "Carlo" off is another reason for my trepidation with confronting her about it. He presents himself as all fun and happy times, but there's a dark side to him. I think Diana was happier than she had been years prior. She would make multiple mentions of her domestic violence past, many times bringing up DV almost in a proud sense that she overcame something horrible. However, I think at the heart of it, she is still vulnerable to someone overpowering her and her acquiescing and doing what she has to to please him and keep the peace. Forgot to mention earlier, the morning after Diana and her friend were sleeping together nekkid and my hubby and friend had slept on the sofa instead, Diana was showing off the alpacas and grounds to hubby and friend, and at one point she actually said "I think I'd kill myself if Carlo ever left me." Then paused, realized what she said, and joked it off and was like "I mean, look at all this!" in reference to the alpacas and other farm animals (not a great selling point, IMO. Who TF cares about owning alpacas??) Honestly, I think Carlo wanted/wants to get to know hubby and me better to see if we can be "groomed" into that circle of friends, or something close to being a part of it all.

It sounds dramatic, but it’s such a cultish atmosphere I think my friend has fallen into, I’d like to know other people’s thoughts, opinions, and advice. I’ll refrain from using anyone’s real names, but here goes… Hubby & I met our friend Diana through a mutual friend a couple years ago and we hit it off. We’ve hung out by ourselves many times and even went on a trip out of the country together. Years ago, she was in an abusive relationship that lasted for years. She was afraid of him, intimidated by him, her life revolved around him, etc. Thankfully, that is all behind her now and the woman we see today is confident, secure, and strong. She prides herself on her independence and her personal achievements in life (her career, buying her own home, etc.). She dates around, but wasn’t interested in settling down just yet, nor settling for just anyone. However, a little over a year ago, she met a guy we’ll call Carlo. He’s allegedly very wealthy. Comes from a wealthy family where we can see his parents and brother are well off. He’s very eccentric, in that he’s one of those free spirits that is constantly traveling the country, going to various EDM events and does things like Burning Man and all those sorts of things with his group of friends. Of course, recreational drugs are frequently used. He can be gone weeks at a time, especially when traveling in his RV. Diana and Carlo start dating but very casually initially. He does his thing, she does hers, and they give themselves no title. Eventually, they start getting closer and establish they are “exclusive” or boyfriend/girlfriend or whatever official label they give themselves. Carlo has a circle of friends he’s very close to. Men and women, but we mostly see him having group hangouts with the women, almost all of them tall, pretty, thin blondes. Everyone seems to be in their 30’s. Early on in the relationship, Diana tells us that Carlo told her that he used to be married, but the wife eventually divorced him because he wanted to be more free and she couldn’t put up with his free spirit lifestyle. He’s a financial planner (allegedly), but has money and the freedom to do whatever, whenever. Whether it be skydiving, gliding, boating, whatever. He’s all over the place. Last fall was when we started seeing a slow shift in Diana. She started getting flaky, making plans with us that were established for weeks, and then suddenly the weekend of, she said she couldn’t make it because Carlo is taking her to Florida or something like that (and yes, they really did go; it wasn’t a lie). When we all planned to spend Halloween together in our group costumes and head downtown, on the night of, she was adamant that we had to attend a certain club because a couple friends of Carlo’s had a VIP lounge, and we have go to and we have to buy a $200 bottle of vodka as a thank-you for letting us join. [Side note: When we got there, the place was DEAD: D-E-A-D. Our Halloween costumes were amazing with a professional makeup artist doing us up, and we got to show it off to nobody in a dark club. Even though it was dead, she still insisted we buy the $200 bottle (to impress the couple? To keep up with the Joneses?) even though plenty of alcohol was still available. In the end, we bought it, and it was never opened. Pointless purchase. But I digress… ] A couple weeks later, we were supposed to attend a concert together, and Carlo whisked her away somewhere the weekend of instead. During this time and going forward, we would casually talk about other mutual friends, and she would say she hasn’t spoken to so-and-so for awhile, nor seen them in person for quite some time. By contrast, she was spending a lot of time with Carlo’s group of friends. She was also spending time here and there with a wealthy couple Carlo is friends with, and Hubby and I also know, but not really well. They’re a prominent couple here in this area (we’ll call them Brandon and Brenda). They are in the local public spotlight, but behind closed doors they’re both bisexual and both have same-sex side pieces they regularly hook up with. We should know; one of our younger friends was the husband’s play-thing for a few months. And the wife took a liking to Diana, though Diana politely declined any advances. Fast forward to this past winter. Carlo is away for over 2 months, traveling the country in his RV doing God-knows-what. At this point, Diana practically lives at his place. She still has her house, but she’s only there 1, maybe 2 nights a week. She also has a cat. Diana loves her darling kitty. However, Carlo isn’t a fan of cats, apparently. And eventually, Diana tells us of an incident where her cat freaks out and goes bat [!@#$%^&*] crazy all over the house, scratching her and scratching up things, and Diana is “scared” and decides to give the cat up. Just like that. Kitty gone. And she acted as though she had no attachment to the poor critter when she did it. During this stretch of time when Carlo was away, Diana invited me, my husband, and our good friend over to Carlo’s place to spend the evening there and hang out. When we get there, a guy is there. A friend of Carlo who is now a good friend to Diana. Carlo’s house is always lit in a dark pink/light purple hue. Very trippy. And EDM music is always playing in the background. We eat, drink, color a giant paint-by-numbers thing that adorns one of his entire walls (weird, but okay, let’s color like we’re 3rd graders). Diana really wants to show off Carlo’s large steam shower he had installed in the basement. So we all go down there and she says we can all strip down and go in. Um okay, I guess. It’s steamy and we really can’t see each other’s naughty bits when it’s fogged up. She strips down nekkid with no hesitation, as did her guy friend [Side note: she was shy about nudity the previous summer when we were vacationing]. We all follow suit. We’re on one side of the shower, and Diana and the guy friend is on the other. It’s foggy, but my hubby can see something: A stroking movement. Diana is definitely stroking the guy’s dick. And at one point when the guy gets up to adjust the steam or whatnot, my hubby can see the dude’s got a full erection. Later, when the guy is out of the room, Diana admits that Carlo and she have this understanding that people have needs, and they’re free about things. And the guy friend is going through a divorce and is lonely. Carlo is “allowing her” to be close to him to help fulfill his needs. Soon after, I leave to go home and take care of the dogs (I didn’t want to spend the night anyhow). And my hubby later recounts to me that when it was time to go to bed, Diana and the dude stripped nekkid and were in Carlo’s bed together and invited my hubby and our friend to join them. Just to sleep. Together. Butt ass nekkid. Hubby and our friend declined and slept on the sofa. The next morning, hubby could sense that Diana felt a little embarrassed but didn’t address the elephant in the room. Now we come to pandemic time. Diana is fortunate to be able to work from home... Carlos’ home, that is. [Diana has expressed an interest in getting rid of her house altogether and moving in with Carlo]. Carlo is back home too. And apparently, at least a half dozen of his friends are also quarantining in his home. Let me tell you about his home… he owns a large lot of land, though the house itself is small. Only 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, and a basement that seemingly will always be under construction, other than the steamroom. The property has vineyards for making wine (allegedly). He owns alpacas just for the fun of it. He also has chickens, and bees for making honey. Side note: One time pre-COVID when we were hosting a party, Diana came over with some of Carlo’s honey. She raved about it and told everyone, “I brought honey. Carlo’s honey. It came from Carlo’s bees. Carlo’s bees,” like a broken record to everyone who could hear her. And over half the people at our party didn’t even know who Carlo was. But I digress… Across from Carlo’s property is a restaurant. Carlo tells us that he owns the restaurant, or at least owns most of it, and the family who works there run it for him. We later find out on our own that Carlo doesn’t own it at all. The family who runs it in facts owns it. To this day, Diana still believes Carlo owns it. Also, about that vineyard. Diana tells us he said he makes the wine and then “gives it” (yep, GIVES it) to one of the nearby wineries. Said winery is actually very well known around this area and is sold in grocery stores across this state. But according to Diana, Carlo gives away his wine to the well-known winery for them to sell. Sounds like a great way to make literally ZERO money, right? So, during quarantine time, Diana is there at Carlo’s place, along with some 8 or so other people. Some are couples, some are single. All 30-something, all into the EDM scene, all into the recreational drug use. In fact, at this point, with Diana having attended multiple EDM concerts with Carlo and Carlo’s friends, Diana is now a champion of recreational drugs, saying it’s healthier and safer than alcohol usage and there’s never any hangover. She has frequently used stuff with them. Around this time, hubby, myself, and our friend are discussing this amongst each other. Talking about Diana, that is, and what has happened over these last few months. Also around this time, I just happened to have rewatched Season 3 of Melrose Place and it dawns on me – this is just like Sydney when she unwittingly joined a cult. Let me tell you about another pre-COVID event that Diana told us about. Remember Brandon and Brenda, the wealthy bisexual socialites? At some point this past winter, both of them expressed an interest in Diana. Brandon, Brenda, and Carlo know each other and have for years. So… apparently, an actual “contract” was written up where Diana indeed had sex with them both. There were conditions. Diana pretty much laid there while Brandon and Brenda “explored” her body. Obviously, this pandemic era is unlike any other time, and people are isolating themselves. I get it. However, I see Diana, Carlo, and the group of friends together all the time posting stuff online. Always group “family” hangouts and dinners and laying on blankets together around his property, all cozied up with one another. Even now with restrictions lifted, they’re just keeping to each other, whether they’re at Carlo’s Compound (as I refer to it) or doing weekend trips in Michigan and Wisconsin. In April, when we tried to do a Zoom Party Night of the four of us friends, Diana agreed to it; then the evening of, she could only do it for a half hour, and we could see Carlo and the gang of friends in the background. It seemed like she was trying to get some privacy, but Carlo kept popping up in the room checking on her, we could tell. She was supposed to come to our house and hang out with us early July when our friend was in town, so we could all have our little reunion, and then the evening of, she has excuses about limited time where she can only drop by for an hour or so. And then as we’re getting closer to the time, she says Carlo will be coming, along with one of those random girl friends [it’s the one from Halloween who hosted the VIP lounge, “you know her!”]. So the reunion of the 4 of us has to include 2 special guest stars. Hubby and I can be hospitable but the whole thing felt weird, so we decided to cancel on her, citing we were already too drunk from being at the pool all day and we were about to crash. Fast-forward a few more weeks and we come to today. Back in early July when she expressed she misses us and wants to hang out, she says she thinks she’ll be able to see us in late August. Late August? What concrete plans are keeping you busy for 2 solid months? Nothing. Now, Carlo is going on some trip at the end of August/early September. So that must’ve been her “spare time” she had in mind for us. However, this past Wednesday she reaches out to Hubby to ask what we’re doing this Friday. “Carlo and I really want to see you.” And apparently it HAS to be Friday. “What about breakfast?” We work. “What if we pick some food up and we just see you a couple hours?” Now granted, this is last-minute planning and we actually already have plans in the works, but when Hubby offers other suggestions, she can’t do it. Carlo is actually gone starting next week, and Diana doesn’t join him on the trip until the following week. She’d be FREE next weekend. Yet, when hubby points that out, she’s silent on the suggestion to make plans for next weekend alone. Before I wrap this story up, there’s clues I’ve given you about what Carlo must really do behind the scenes. We’re convinced he’s involved in drug dealing. He is a “financial advisor” (a cliché code term, according to some in the know). He lives an eccentric lifestyle that was originally funded from family money. He has a vineyard… so where’s the profit on that? And alpacas for what… to say he makes money from their wool? And the honey bees…? Interestingly, Carlo told Diana he makes more money than Brandon and Brenda, but they own Mercedes and Rolls Royce and other vehicles, while he drives around in one car – a Tesla that has a banged up side (“My mother drove it once and banged it up”) that still has yet to be fixed…. And the restaurant he “owns” but he doesn’t own at all. PLUS… a simple google search will tell you he was arrested for 2 counts of possession in 2018 on a Florida cruise ship at an EDM festival. I know this write-up only tells part of the story, as there’s been a lot more red flags here, but my guess is that at this point, she is not “allowed” to see friends outside of Carlo’s Circle of Friends unless he is in attendance with her. It is like she has to be chaperoned by him. As for the group, I say they’re all swingers and there’s a lot of open love amongst the group. Lots of group sex and drugs. I’m sure I’ve left out other key details and warning signs, but what are your thoughts? Personal experiences? Advise? Is Diana a lost cause until she sees the light on her own terms? Or should we say something? I’m guessing if we say anything, we’ll get shut down, branded as bad people by Carlo, and never hear from her again. As it is, we discovered he likes to “test” people’s loyalty as friends, and we’re convinced he was the reason why Diana stopped being friends with a mutual friend of ours last year. Like I said, lots of warning signs here and there.

One word: Desperation She's got nada going on, and Andy isn't stanning for her behind the scenes because no one likes her. Yeah, she'll do their dirty work when it suits them, but otherwise she's a loose cannon and pulls their "classy" group into the gutter. She'll never be welcomed back full-time, but she'll eat up every crumb they throw at her for another second in the spotlight. It's kinda sad.

Agreed, and perfect comparison (ATL's Porsha). Two women I never thought I'd warm up to becoming vital pieces of the show. (Well, maybe I'm giving Dorit too much credit, but another good season could elevate her in my eyes) Dare to dream: Since it's producer-Kyle and it would also show their hand in production/editing, I would love at the reunion for someone to call out that Kyle's Christmas decorations were apparently up WAY before Thanksgiving/before the trip. Hmm...

Wishful casting for RHOBH season 11... What do you think it would take for LVP to come back...?

Agreed as well. Those 4 plus Camille, and someone new. We need a shakeup, NYC style when they axed Jill/Alex/Kelly/Cindy. These 5 can carry the torch into the second decade (yikes!) of RHOBH. Kyle uttering those words that Brandi never lies was such a joke. I sure wish they had flashed back to all the times Kyle said otherwise, but y'know... producer privilege...

Agreed, and I actually wanted to clarify lol.... the current cast isn't that unlikable (except Kelly Dodd who I can't stand), but there's no star power here. Shannon and Kelly are the biggest draws?? Otherwise you have blah Emily, blah Gina, blah Braunwyn. Ho-hum..... However, in the days of Alexis, Gretchen... oy, those were toxic years IMO.

That whole time from 2002-2003 was such a weird era. It's almost like Dena Higley was brought on to purposely sabotage the show so they'd have reason for Reilly to come back and "save" it. Of course, that's not what actually happened, but it was a bogus move to ax Brash and Cwikly. Another "interim" headwriter that was better than what came before or after her was Beth Milstein in mid-2006 after Reilly 2.0 left but before Hogan Sheffer joined.

IMO, RHOC and RHONJ always suffered from generally unlikable people. I don't know if it's a Republican thing or what, and New Jersey has finally rebounded with a solid cast after struggling for years, but I think this is going to be a tough year for OC, COVID or no COVID.

The only time when I'm proud to say I'm now a Wisconsinite. We're gonna flip this mother back to blue

@Cat You bring up an idea that we've tossed around here before... a Super Housewives Show. And in all honesty, I could see this happening eventually, as these shows have become so scripted and planned, with castmembers scheming and bringing in their own agendas. I could see them doing a "reboot" or multi-week special with original cast-mates, or a blend of cast members from various Housewives show that come together for one gigantic vacation special. Agreed on 12 episodes for this season's OC being a wise move. Seeing that cast lineup [I'm unimpressed, to say the least] I imagine it would be painful to watch them squeeze out nearly two dozen episodes. POTOMAC: I don't try to keep up with the social media shenanigans of the Housewives (that's a rabbit hole that'll end up taking way too much time), but I saw Gizelle came back up from the rock she was hiding under, making some generic remark about the audio of Monique on Sunday's show somehow "proving" something. Okay Giz...