Vee

I like the mid '90s OLTL opening (and the focus on the paper, the city, etc). But if OLTL were around today I think an updated version of the famous Peabo song with a similar montage to the mid '90s opening would work best. I don't think anything is as timeless as FOTH and the AMC '90s-2000s tune though.

That's Korte, IMO. As soon as Mulcahey was out the door Ava hit the skids again. Similar things have happened with Nina when she 'won' Sonny from Carly. Every day was about humiliating her.

IIRC, girl vanished in the bathroom mid-dance contest. Cady was embarrassing in what became a very cartoonish role as Kelly Andrews(?) on Y&R. To this day I am not sure who exactly killed her off. I liked Cynthia Watros in the role - she was visceral and raw in her grief over her child - but I don't think the character had a purpose other than to be Billy's other woman. Watros has done valiant work in poor roles, including the mess that was Nina Reeves on GH long before she got there. I would earmark her for a short-term role on OLTL were it to still exist (which I originally thought up for the late Anne Heche), but we don't live in that world.

BTG is Michele Val Jean's baby. Guza is a co-writer and Ron Carlivati is a staff writer. I don't really think it's fair to judge her brainchild according to the white men working under her, though I personally think Guza in particular has his merits.

Which is why she actually thrived in Peapack, where all the artifice was stripped away and she was just doing old, fat, horny Reva weary of the world. If they intended it to put her in her place after clashing with Wheeler it didn't work. I think some of that was Kim's best, most nuanced work with truly weak material. It's when I gained a new respect for her and began revisiting her classic years in the '80s. I've said it before: In middle to late middle age Kim could've thrived on the British soaps. They have dozens of women like her.

I think the story (under Mulcahey) was them growing to understand and respect each other in a more romantic way. I definitely saw it happening with Drew towards Nina in spring and summer, as he softened and saw her in a different light and they began to work well together at Crimson/Aurora and in his political career, and seeing her with her family. He called her a spoiled dilettante (which she is), she called him a cocky boor (which he was). Then they began to shift. The dalliance with Willow was what got in the way, in true soapy fashion. I wasn't against it at all, as crazier things have happened on soaps. But the way it's been done since Mulcahey dipped has downshifted Nina and amped up Drew being portrayed as a skeez. It's a fine line between a cad and scheming but fun cavalier hunk vs. an outright skeezy dude, especially in today's world. Cameron can portray both and I think has done so well, but they've leaned hard into the latter since PM exited. I do not think they are trying to present Drew and Willow as true love. I think he is the full heel. And that's fine too if it has to happen (though it didn't), it can still make good drama. Just not the way GH generally does it, rushing things and wasting potential good villains and drama.

It was more an idea of two arrogant opposites - Tom II (now Thomas, to avoid any unfortunate racial optics) would come back to town with a chip on his shoulder about his skills a la Patrick Drake (and engage in a brief and torrid affair with older woman and work superior Portia), and Christina (who probably would need to go by another name given Kristina Corinthos-Davis) would be a fiery writer and activist trading on her adoptive and biological parents' scandalous histories for her work and possible TV deals, sort of an eccentric creative in the mold of the Dobsons. And eventually they would come together and become a new central young couple. Thomas did have a childhood around Maxie, so they would be friendly. I did consider the idea of having Tom Hardy appear (be it Matt Ashford or someone else), since I think Steven Lars/Steve Webber is played out as an elder hospital character and you can't really have both around; they fill the same heritage role. You would have to reckon with Thomas' family at some point regardless, and it would be nice to see Simone. I would love to see Chris Ramsey again, but Nolan North is now a very big deal in video games and as I recall has spoken ill of his soap experience; I suspect he is unlikely to ever come back.

Greenlee was popular. Then she was overexposed and unpopular, but she still had a considerable fanbase with the general audience. I think it's safe to say Cameron Mathison has not set the world as Drew on GH. They have profoundly mishandled him. Both Michael Easton's non-McBain roles on GH flopped. Same with Roger Howarth's non-Todd roles despite endless attempts to cement Franco. Same with his deeply unpopular ATWT run.

I don't think they were ever serious about a Brenda recast. I think they were, by modern parlance, 'trolling for engagement' from the idea and maybe chumming the waters seeing if they could lure Vanessa back with an offer re: the spinoff. I like the dead leaves. It's moody! You're wrong about that Koz groove too!

They did. It was never difficult to update FOTH.

Man, I don't know. Every year we have more and more of these ancient-ass SON accounts dating back 20 years coming out of hibernation, most with minimal to no posting history, to act deranged all over the board. Some of y'all know what I'm talking about. Before he claimed full ownership of BTG upon its announcement and then began to turn on it for not being the show he made up in his head, vanguard's only post on this forum was complaining about Empire ten years ago. I don't know what this person is going through but I am through sanctioning it. He can join my very large Ignore filter.

Messy on soaps and "uncouth and low rent behavior" are two different things. But you've been off this show since they didn't set it in ATL, use your fanfic or cast random men you found on Google.

I didn't think you needed both character and actor names. One or the other at best, if at all. Every time I saw both I thought 'they really think we're deeply stupid.' And it looked messy. I also found it awkward when they added character names to the last FOTH openings near the end of its run when Frons took over ABCD. I think OLTL may have tried this briefly at the same time, then dropped it.

This one looked cheap as hell to me, lol. All the cheesy background images of Wyndemere, etc. made me think half the cast was living in the vampire castle from Big Bad Beetleborgs. But it was still better than the Powerpoint slides featuring every guest player or random toddler Frank has taken a shine to. Why is 6 year old Wiley in the opening, Frank?? I would just redo FOTH largely as it was with a few visual updates, and probably not even change the Dave Koz music. It's back in again. Do not use the rock remix from here, which was dated even by the time this slow opening came along.

Same. It almost always worked.

I think the FOTH opening is all but timeless, especially now when sexy sax is back in in a kind of retro way. I'd happily redo it today in a hot second. But if they don't have the money I'd just say find a happy medium - do something like the brief ambulance opening but with a quick riff on FOTH as the theme over that. Maybe toss in some heads/characters seen over or standing around the hospital, a la some British soap openings. 10-15 seconds and done.

Nina is also practically an afterthought in the story now after his exit, which seems deliberate on Korte or whoever's part. Whereas originally I thought Drew and Nina were the endgame, not Drew and Willow. The affair is still a great idea, but I think Drew between mother and daughter was going to be handled differently over time. I don't think the show is serious about putting Drew and Willow over as a love for the ages - I think they know what it is and it's meant to be short-term (too short-term) drama. You even have characters like Michael and Jason, the voice of God, going around saying Drew planned his whole political career and Willow's foundation job just to get Willow into bed. That's not what happened and it's revisionist history. Carly now acts like Drew is A.J., and she spent the last couple years sleeping with him and talking about him like he was a living saint. She was happily in love with him less than a year ago. A character like Drew Q, even now, could thrive on the show as a heavy or heel in earlier times, but today's very basic GH does not seem suited for any characters who aren't either very bland or evil plot devices. The few who are allowed to exist in between (Ava, Ric) are in very precarious spaces that keep them supported due to fanbases and popularity while not presently having much story, are pets of the show and not seen often (Valentin) or are special cases (Sonny). So I think soon Drew is dogmeat. IMO he could stay if handled better, it's just that they've managed to turn the whole audience on him (and they hardly loved him even when PM arrived, due to years of bad story).

I remember Tony Jordan being mercilessly blunt in his appraisal of how they mishandled the Ferreiras, lol.

I do think they're gonna can him, and soon. Which is a bit of a shame since I think Patrick Mulcahey made Drew work and the character still can, but they've also sort of mishandled a lot of the story since and have everyone against him.

Correct. And yes, it's weird as hell to still see the old opening in the early '90s. Cannot believe it took them that long.

It did. There's a whole cast list for it on IMDB. Michael Park, Henry Simmons (Tyrone, AW) and Nicole Forester (NuCassie on GL) were apparently in it. Duwayne Dunham, longtime acolyte and editor of David Lynch at Twin Peaks (who directed several eps) directed the pilot.

That's my suspicion, since we've gotten so many gaps filled in recent years (particularly with virtually all of Gottlieb and Malone's OLTL becoming available). We even got more '70s OLTL a year or two ago, which I never thought would happen. We know many actors had kinescopes or other affiliate copies. We know the material is out there. I think over time more will come, the same as many lost films or classic Doctor Who. As for me, my holy grails these days remain: - More of very early AMC. - More of '60s/'70s OLTL, particularly the Carla story in 1968-69. We know affiliates had copies. - As much of the Dobsons' GL as possible. Can't get enough of that. - A more extensive and organized archive of Marland's ATWT, on par with what we now have for a lot of OLTL, GH, Y&R, etc. in various places. But most of all: - More of Lemay's '70s AW. - Michael Malone's Fox late-night pilot for 13 Bourbon Street. A copy is available in his archive at Duke University, but that's all we know.

idk if she was actually dying, but she did have the serious disease and she did die (by suicide). Gray may have been referring to the character having a very short run.

I do think upon all of our reflection that Tony was likely only ever meant to be a red herring, not the rapist - I think the most likely possibility the network vetoed was the one we all now remember that Khan mentioned, where the rapist was never caught. I also liked Jennifer Hetrick as Veronica, which was very different from her Trek role. I do think the story was very rushed, of course.

No, I think this is all correct. Admittedly I am also bearing in mind the actor in the role of Bill (whose name escapes me atm) also playing the cheating husband/heavy on Ava DuVernay's excellent OWN soap Queen Sugar, so I'm bringing that to the table.