Soaplovers

Plus, it was hard to buy Eric going for Stephanie when he had an attractive/glamorous girlfriend already except for the money aspect (since I think Stephanie came from money.. and Eric was more middle to upper middle class). Plus, the first Beth was warm, confident, and still sexy even with the show's attempt at dressing her in casual clothes with her hair up all the time. Though this Beth vs Stephanie would have been interesting... and it would have explained later plot developments when Brooke/Eric got together since the first Beth and Brooke looked like they could be mother/daughter.

I disagree, I actually liked the story... the problem was the casting of Sarah Michelle Gellar in the part. It threw off the timeline quite a bit.

I always marvel at the stupidity of people.. and this is a prime example. Putting a link in RetroTv's facebook is like revealing a secret about someone to that certain someone.

Robin Strasser didn't do the super over-acting bit until she was on Passions (and you had to over-act on that show). and than when she returned in 2003. I had seen her in a few roles outside soaps where she was more subtle, she played against type in the tv movie Baby M where she was subdued and low key.. and wished she would have played more roles like that to show the public her range.

The other thing I noticed about Marland's final year or two was his old tendency to drag out a story longer than it should instead of quickly trying to resolve it, plus trying to recreate situations that worked in the early part of his regime again for the early 90s. We had the whole Dusty/Lily/Holden/Meg story that worked in the early part of his run as writer.. but when he attempted to recreate a similar situation with Hutch/Rosanna/Debbie/Evan.. it didn't seem to work quite as well (though it does prove that Sharon Case did use to have really nice thick hair once upon a time). Would the outcome have differed if he hadn't died in the middle of that situation? Whose to say. We also had the whole Carolyn Crawford mystery that dragged on for over a year and half featuring the death of a character that had only been on for a few months. I heard a rumor (not sure if true or not) where the original killer was to be her hubby, but that Marland changed it.... not sure if that's true or not. Based on the early part of the story, it did look as if he was going to be the killer given Frannie's sudden love for him and his sudden rush to marry. Personally, the story would have worked better if he had been the killer and Frannie saved herself... while having Barbara/Frannie having tension due to Jennifer being Darryl's, etc. @DramatistDreamer I do agree with your theory that perhaps he was suffering from health problems long before his sudden death because the tone of the last few years was dark, somber, and focused more on death, illness, and sadness.. than his first 2 1/2 years.

Rinna seems to have a one track mind with things. When she first joined, her and Kim were in a good place until Kim's strange behavior in the limo. I admit being on Rinna's side at first, but she was like a dog with a chew toy. Even though Kim has a lot of negative traits, I also felt bad for her because Rinna was relentless on her. And Kim was correct by saying that without her, where is her story. We saw last season, Rinna was more low key and doing things in her day to day life.. regaining some of the favor that she'd lost.. but it looks like any favor regained is being lost quickly. We also know that Vanderpump can be shady and passive aggressive.. but isn't that the main traits of being a full time housewife for more than a season? I do hope if Vanderpump does leave that Rinna goes after Kyle cause that witch needs to be raked over the coals.

I liked it better in previous seasons on all the shows where all the housewives weren't at events.. sometimes that spurs organic conflict (i.e. when Heather didn't invite Ramona to London during season 5 of RHONY). If these are 'reality shows', shouldn't they be doing things that logical and normal people would do. So if LVP isn't going somewhere because of not getting along with the other women, or handling personal family business.. than that's.... gasp... like real life! It's one of the reasons I didn't mind Shannon doing a freeze out of Vicki during most of season 11 because they weren't speaking.. and it was organic reasoning...with Heather Dubrow trying to reason with Shannon.. and Breanna trying to reason with Vicki. Plus, Meghan was dead pan asking Tamra if telling her to f off was called for even though Tamra was in distress after the Atv accident. Organic things like that are why I used to love the housewives.

What I noticed about Marland's writing was that it was more energetic/fun in his first two years or so (fall 1985 until early 1988).. partly because he was carrying on the tone established by the previous headwriter (Bledsoe Horgan) and writing the story threads started by her, including characters created by her (Shannon O'hara.. at least early Shannon is an exact copy of Bledsoe Horgan.. quirky/life coach/whimsical). However, I noticed after the writers strike that his tone of writing started to get more somber/serious/darker.. even fun characters like Shannon got watered down. I often wondered if he was going with the trend of soaps at that time to be less over the top/flashy and more somber/serious? It's why when I rewatch his era.. I liked the first two years because there is an energy and sense of fun that is missing by the late 80s/early 90s (though I do admit I liked his one comical creation Dana.. who was the surrogate for Darryl/Carolyn.. and her attempts at doing Margo's hair and also her being more of a hindrance to a hitman that took her hostage). I mentioned before I liked Noelle Beck/Heather Rattray better than Martha Bryne as Lily... so I'll also say I liked Mary Ellen Stuart better than Julianne Moore as Frannie.

What's scary is that she's active, eats well, and still had this happen. A good cautionary tale to always be your own advocate and go when you feel something is wrong. Thank gosh we didn't lose her.

I think Emily made it look as if Eddie and Margo were hooking up.. in order to make Tom turn to her. @DRW50 I think how you described the 1987 is probably one of the reasons I wasn't a huge Marland fan,... too polite and refined. And his propping of Princess Lily was sickening. I think the only reason Meg and, to a lesser extent, Iva were so popular were due to the actresses playing them.. than to the writing. As a kid, I remember liking Meg and loving it when she would stick it to Lily. For some strange reason, even though Marland was still writing the show, I found myself liking Lily much more when Heather R played Lily... and yes.. I even liked Noelle Beck as Lily. Both of them made Lily less spoiled.. even though both were playing Lily during selfish/spoiled periods for the character... if that makes sense.

I've watched Beverly's take on Iris.. and I have to say I liked Carman's take on Iris much better.. only because I grew up watching Ms. Mckinsey as Alexandra (and she didn't want to go back to AW because it was filmed in Brooklyn). I could see the start of Iris becoming more attentive to business matters at the end of her Texas run.. and going off to New York than traveling through Europe... perhaps during some downtime (or during her brief fling with Michael Hudson).. probably learning about business matters... etc. I mean the character was off the show for several years so whose to say that she didn't pick up on learning business. The only thing I had trouble with was throwing Iris knee deep into the business stories the second she came back in late 1988. I could have seen her trying to learn more about the business after seeing how well Amanda was doing.. and perhaps thinking if she was more interested in the business.. than Mac would respect her, etc. So I wouldn't have made her the Chief.. but I could have seen her possibly hiring someone to be the Chief thus saving the company in the eleventh hour, etc. And than after Mac's death, Iris becoming involved in the business as both a way to make it up to her daddy for the Chief stunt.. and to stick it to Rachel/Amanda. With that said, it's sad to read that she's passed

What I thought was short-sighted was killing off of Kate's half-brother... who had an interesting rapport/chemistry with Paige. The cliffhanger showed the cop shooting at him, but the season 13 writing team killed him off. Had Ann Marcus taken over at the start of season 13.. I think she could have made the season 12 finale work long-term. The one positive of the horrible season 13 writing team (pre-Ann Marcus coming back mid season) was that they wrote Val with more respect and with an arc that actually fit her character (helping a lost misguided waitress learn to read... it was in character of Val to help those in need especially younger lost soul women and children).

Nene only shades those she feels threatened by... at least when they aren't around. Oddly, I'll never dislike Kandi for the very reason that she makes Nene nervous and shoots her down non-stop. LVP wouldn't even have Nene in her thoughts.. if asked about these comments.

Jonathan Frakes (Genie Francis' hubby) debuted as Dr. Tom Carroll in today's set of episodes.

Good.. maybe the show can salvage Alexis.. because the character shouldn't be side-lined whatsoever. In fact, I think Cristal 1.0 and Cristal 2.0 are both busts.. and I think an Alexis vs. Fallon conflict is where the show should focus on.. along with the continued beefing up of Monica's role (loved the turban she was wearing in a recent episode).

I know Tomei opted to leave, but I always wonder how Marland would have written her character.

Eh... though seeing Dorinda revisit her former fitness instructor life in 80s get-up is worth a view Bethenny crying and trying to act like Jill Jr... I can fast forward

A Housewife all star needs to so happen.

I remember reading that Law and Order and shows like it (NCIS, etc) did well in reruns.. but that continuing shows (like Desperate Housewives, etc.. though Knots Landing was quite popular on TNT in the 80s and 90s on TNT) struggled.. but that during the height of the DVD era... serialized/soapy shows outsold self-contained programs by a landslide. So I can buy streaming to be the same way.

I would have ended it with Eden falling off the cliff and her body not being found. That way if her pilot didn't get picked up and/or didn't work out... she could have returned as being in a coma and/or reverted to the Lisa split personality and taken up being a jewel thief again. And perhaps when A Martinez left the show, it was after receiving word that the Eden personality had taken hold and she was asking for him... and Cruz left Santa Barbara to go to Eden.. and once they reunited.. sent for the kids so that they could live happily ever after.

I think I recall the Dobson's inheriting this story and stating this wasn't how they would have written Eden out.. but had to write what was already started.. and decided to fix it as much as they could (this scene is probably the Dobson's making sense of the mess they inherited.. and it made sense since Eden always had unresolved issues with Sophia.. even was hypnotized to forget seeing Sophia alive when in Europe)

So basically the opposite of what he's been doing for the first months of the Doctors.. where he slowed the pace down to a glacier, characters were talking, little to no action... and the female characters regressed. At least it proves it's possible to learn from your mistakes after your first time attempting to write a show.

The late 70s and early 80s for Y & R sound interesting to me... while the show went back to the basics by the mid 80s (with Bill Bell admitting he was trying to follow the trends of soaps during that period).. some of those gothic esque stories sounded interesting to me... Suzanne Lynch, Vanessa Prentiss, even the Robert/Angela Lawrence stories sounded interesting to watch. Was it Bill Bell or Kay Alden that did the Joshua and Veronica Landers story? It seemed interesting, but than it veered off into just having Victor/Nikki remarry on a whim that really led to nothing really interesting (other than Diane's woman scorned story).

It seems like Bell and Agnes Nixon did the gothic element...but were able to make it relatable and not over the top. Reilly and Ron C should have taken notes.

Just from watching the 1968 episode, Susan was more interesting than Amy... who was kind of a drip. Why the show opted to write Susan in the early 70s and focus on drippy Amy I'll never understand