28 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

Yes, this. Again, while at the time when the AMC 1995 episodes were airing I think fans were already calling out the show for losing some of what made it so special. And yet, watching now, we still have SO many of these wonderful types of scenes that add nothing to the plot, but add tremendously to the sense of a lived reality (and, with the right actors, are enjoyable to watch.) Stuff like Peggy (played by the wonderful Ann Meara) and her interactions while working at Wildwind, Myrtle mocking Marian and Enid Nelson when they come into her dress shop, Jackson talking about how much he enjoyed the Summers as a kid in the South, just to name three moments in the episodes that aired this week. I have no idea why these types of scenes and dialogue seem so absent from soaps (and have for a long time now,) because they really don't seem difficult to do. So I can only assume that the powers that be feel they are a waste of time now...

I think part of the reason is because soaps used to attract writers who wrote books and plays, whereas now they just attract people who are more focused on the parody of a soap. That whole Carlivati or Giddens mentality is soulless.

6 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I think part of the reason is because soaps used to attract writers who wrote books and plays, whereas now they just attract people who are more focused on the parody of a soap. That whole Carlivati or Giddens mentality is soulless.

Right--when you read about the ABC writers workshop program (whatever it was called) they would send finders/feelers looking out everywhere, at new play festivals and contests, etc. Now it does seem to just be insular--soap writers come from soap viewers, often even it seems that being their only qualification. (No offence to Giddens, or Carlivati for that matter, but did they have ANY experience writing in any other format?)

On 6/6/2026 at 5:16 AM, Soaplovers said:

One thing that BTG has done right is presenting a character like Kat, who isn't pre-occupied with sex.. and when she did lose her virginity, it was realistically done because some people don't have these magical first time experiences with sex. And there was a process where she had to learn to kind of get into having sex with her partner that was relatable. Even though she's a Have character, I think she's probably one of the best written and realistic characters.. someone that means well.. but sometimes is blinded by her privlege and ends up doing the wrong thing. If her on screen partner could act.. I would say that they have a good rapport because the conversations they have are semi realistic.. but it would be nice if she didn't have to do all the heavy lifting.

@Taoboi I actually think Kat is my favorite on this soap.

I agree. Kat is the most layered, well-written character on that show. In fact, she's the only reason I watch these days. And the funny thing is I don't even think she's the writers' favorite character to write for. I think it was just by chance they conveyed all their most genuine stories into her, the actress is solid and voila, you have a great character.

11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I think part of the reason is because soaps used to attract writers who wrote books and plays, whereas now they just attract people who are more focused on the parody of a soap. That whole Carlivati or Giddens mentality is soulless.

Very well said.

12 hours ago, DRW50 said:

soaps used to attract writers who wrote books and plays

Danielle Paige writes for BTG. She is a published author.

Cheryl L. Davis writes for BTG. She is a playwright and a musical theater librettist. Ms. Davis was just appointed to the board of Cady McClain's Axial Theatre in New York.

1 hour ago, janea4old said:

Danielle Paige writes for BTG. She is a published author.

Cheryl L. Davis writes for BTG. She is a playwright and a musical theater librettist. Ms. Davis was just appointed to the board of Cady McClain's Axial Theatre in New York.

No one likes a know it all.

True, those particular individuals have outside writing credits... but the vast majority of those in charge of the writers rooms are insulated and not hired from the outside the soap genre.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Soaplovers

15 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:

though by the mid 90s Pine Valley was centred around three extremely rich households (the Chandlers, the Wildwind group and, though featured less heavily by now, the Cortlands... I suppose Phoebe Tyler is still around as well, although the Tylers were no longer much of a presence,) there still was an attempt to show a lot of middle class and even poor characters and families. It's debatable how well this is handled

We were a long way from the early Nixon OLTL with the structure of the show set up around the wealthy Lord family and the working class Woleks, but there was still more verisimilitude inherent in the settings and situations.

That mid 90’s period is a fascinating place because you can kind of see the shift happening on many of the soaps. Up to that point I feel like we saw the characters working more. Even someone wealthy like Erica had scenes taking place at Enchantment, or Liza/Tad producing the talk show. Homes were staged differently, the decor and style of Wildwind was not at all the same as Adam Chandler’s home. Victor Newman was an incredibly wealthy tycoon surrounded by rich folks. But they still went to work! Ashley was still in the lab developing new formulas, Neil was an executive but still learning from Victor and not in the same place economically yet, we saw Ryan start in the mailroom! We saw them launch new lines at Jabot.

On GH of the same era Luke’s club was clearly not in the best part of town and we saw him and Mike behind the bar, we still saw scenes of the doctors at work at GH like Kevin with therapy patients, Mac and Felicia took turns at The Outback, etc. Britt living above Bobbie’s recently was just used as another gimmick to show how far she had fallen. Nobody lived there next to her to show any semblance of dignity about having the kind of life where you did live someplace like that, even short term.

I think somewhere along the way soap showrunners/networks decided this was all mundane, and as they became more plot driven and focused on easy network approvals (like pregnancy stories and baby switches), the basics have just been leached out. I just think those little details matter, even if the story isn’t about that.

His overall run did not work out, but by simply paying more attention to emotional weight and better scripting Patrick Mulcahey made me care about Dante and Sam on GH as a couple in like two days and before that they were just there doing nothing.

Writing for sets already up, regurgitating plot without any character specificity, not being able to use the canvas fully, and revolving the shows around generic settings has hurt the genre. But these shows used to star actors that did their own wardrobes because they were wearing their own clothes. It’s not just a budget problem.