9 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I just don’t think she brings enough benefit to deal with the problems. The show will look good, certainly the lighting will have some variety. She used to have mostly good instincts with casting. But at what cost? All she likes is misery. Not drama, misery. She had more to do with Stuart Damon’s firing than Guza did. For me, every storytelling instinct she has is bad.

That's fair. I am not necessarily advocating for her return lol. I tend to romanticize Guza/JFP's era, but I remember hating most of it at the time. I would still probably take Guza back and certainly Wendy Riche although I doubt either is looking for a long-term job at their ages.

GH is certainly very watchable still, but I think I despise Frank's run more than JFP's. They both are bad, but it seems Frank gets praised for his stale work. To me, GH gets by with being under budget and keeping the status quo going. No risks are taken at all. And while it seems like Frank is probably a nicer guy to work for he still hires his buddies as often as JFP did.

I would take the Guza writing team back by a mile. Not necessarily the Gooz himself.

I am not sure GH can survive in the current era without FV's budget wizardry tbqh. I would like to hope someone else is out there who can do the job and also be favored by most of the cast. I think he has done wonders for tributes to the elder and deceased cast, and I don't think that can be overstated given past mistakes from the JFP years. I think there are many things he does well. I agree many other elements are stale and risk-less. It took a network mandate to bring in a writer who shook up the show with what ultimately led to its current hottest story, and that was someone who clearly did not get along at FV's GH and was quickly excised.

So I also think I would prefer new (or at least different) blood if possible. And if that's not possible, then at least let Frank stop horning in on the stories and favored characters so much.

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by Vee

3 minutes ago, Vee said:

I would take the Guza writing team back by a mile. Not necessarily the Gooz himself.

I am not sure GH can survive in the current era without FV's budget wizardry tbqh. I would like to hope someone else is out there who can do the job and also be favored by most of the cast. I think he has done wonders for tributes to the elder and deceased cast, and I don't think that can be overstated given past mistakes from the JFP years. I think there are many things he does well. I agree many other elements are stale and risk-less. It took a network mandate to bring in a writer who shook up the show with what ultimately led to its current hottest story, and that was someone who clearly did not get along at FV's GH and was quickly excised.

So I also think I would prefer new (or at least different) blood if possible. And if that's not possible, then at least let Frank stop horning in on the stories and favored characters so much.

Yeah, I agree Frank does tributes quite well and does value his vets a lot more than JFP did. I would still say GH is the most watchable soap on air, although I don't watch Beyond the Gates. Things could absolutely be worse, but I think the show has the ability to be so much better with its cast and characters.

Guza's writing team would probably be better than the man himself. He would immediately move Carly, Jason, and Sonny front and center (if Steve returns). Guza just had the ability to keep things exciting. Sure, there were plenty of errors, but sweeps rarely disappointed. In the end I don't think Guza was a bad writer and had great ideas-I think he got burnt out and overstayed his welcome.

I know Frank is great with the budget, but I have to believe a new EP could cull the cast, still keep the same look and be in line monetarily. It's more depressing to me to think FV probably has this job until he wants to leave because certain characters will never be back, certain couples will never get back together, and certain characters will always be favored. Plus 10 more babies will be born lol. It's the same predictable cycle year after year.

I think there were a lot of things wrong with Guza's later work. I also think he did a lot of things well. I am not convinced he would frontline Maurice again today. He was quite infatuated with DZ/Dante on his way out. I do think he would blanche to see the state of Sonny, Jason and the mob lol.

And yeah, it depresses me too. EPs are meant to leave eventually. Eras are meant to come and go. But there is no sign that is going to happen here.

14 hours ago, titan1978 said:

No thanks, I think she is a toxic EP who has the worst tendencies. She does more damage than she brings positive things, and I don’t think GH would survive another tenure with her.

I don't. I believe she is a woman who operates in a male-dominated industry. But one thing I can say is whenever she was EP (I've only seen GH/Y&R live and some clips of SB), her soaps moved with pace and were not boring to watch. People b*tch and complain she hires her "friends", but everyone does that. Everyone else is called out on it, but because she is a woman, she is called out on it more, which highlights the double standards in the industry regarding gender and hiring practices. And I truly believe she's learned from those mistakes. I do. She runs a business and has a business mindset, which I like. Just in the same way, I believe she was given orders for Y&R and delivered on those orders (making it modern without the guideline of what the network wanted). What Frank does best (and even I think he's struggling at this point) is handle the budget. If it came down to Frank or Jill, I'm choosing Jill every single time. Without a question.

Ultimately, I'd choose a new EP over bringing back a former one, but given the state of GH and my belief that ABC is not as dedicated to it as some would believe, it's hard to name someone. I have thoughts but they're highly unlikely to happen.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Liberty City

43 minutes ago, Vee said:

I think there were a lot of things wrong with Guza's later work. I also think he did a lot of things well. I am not convinced he would frontline Maurice again today. He was quite infatuated with DZ/Dante on his way out. I do think he would blanche to see the state of Sonny, Jason and the mob lol.

And yeah, it depresses me too. EPs are meant to leave eventually. Eras are meant to come and go. But there is no sign that is going to happen here.

I think Guza would immediately speed dial Vanessa, but perhaps not frontline Sonny. He would push Brenda and probably Jason/Brenda. I don't think Guza was ever a huge fan of Sonny/Brenda and preferred Jax/Brenda. It was more of a default than love to put them together. He prefers his own creations/couplings. I also think he would dump a lot of characters. He'd probably bring back Morgan though lol.

I wouldn't mind a more Dante focused show. Not Dante all day, everyday like 2010, but used properly at least. Plus, Guza would go for Dante/Lulu for sure and position Dante as the leading man instead of whatever he is now.

Just now, Liberty City said:

I don't. I believe she is a woman who operates in a male-dominated industry. But one thing I can say is whenever she was EP (I've only seen GH/Y&R live and some clips of SB), her soaps moved with pace and were not boring to watch. People b*tch and complain she hires her "friends", but everyone does that. Everyone else is called out on it, but because she is a woman, she is called out on it more, which highlights the double standards in the industry regarding gender and hiring practices. And I truly believe she's learned from those mistakes. I do. She runs a business and has a business mindset, which I like. Just in the same way, I believe she was given orders for Y&R and delivered on those orders (make it modern without the guideline of what the network wanted). What Frank does best (and even I think he's struggling at this point) is handle budget. If it came down to Frank or Jill, I'm choosing Jill every single time. Without a question.

You have points on Jill and I think she has done some good work. My biggest issue is that she appears to hate women and anyone over a certain age. I would prefer a woman in this male dominated industry to stand up for women not kill them off or fire them.

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

GH is certainly very watchable still, but I think I despise Frank's run more than JFP's. They both are bad, but it seems Frank gets praised for his stale work. To me, GH gets by with being under budget and keeping the status quo going. No risks are taken at all. And while it seems like Frank is probably a nicer guy to work for he still hires his buddies as often as JFP did.

^^ This. Again, Frank is a budget guy, while Jill was a business-minded person. Both have their strengths and both have their weaknesses.

Just now, carolineg said:

You have points on Jill and I think she has done some good work. My biggest issue is that she appears to hate women and anyone over a certain age. I would prefer a woman in this male dominated industry to stand up for women not kill them off or fire them.

I can both understand and see this POV. I do. Her track record speaks for itself (Ellen Parker/Genie Francis/Anna Lee et al.), but I do think she learnt her lesson. I do. She made difficult decisions that even she herself says she shouldn't have made. And that speaks volumes to me that someone can acknowledge the mistakes they've made. But I don't believe she's gone into any of the shows with the intent of "killing" them, as many have claimed. Plus, she does have a strong eye for casting the right actor for a role and even music. Frank drowns his scenes to create 'drama', whereas Jill never needed to do that.

7 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

I don't. I believe she is a woman who operates in a male-dominated industry.

She is, but precious few are as openly misogynistic as her regimes have consistently been.

7 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

But one thing I can say is whenever she was EP (I've only seen GH/Y&R live and some clips of SB), her soaps moved with pace and were not boring to watch. People b*tch and complain she hires her "friends", but everyone does that. Everyone else is called out on it, but because she is a woman, she is called out on it more, which highlights the double standards in the industry regarding gender and hiring practices. And I truly believe she's learned from those mistakes. I do.

GH 2001 was boring to watch, before finally tilting into embarrassing around Endgame. Her OLTL became an absolute slog and gutted the show for years. Most of her friends were wildly unpopular when brought to ABC. OLTL cast/crew and ABC brass alike hated Kale Browne. Some are very talented actors (even Browne wasn't bad) but they stuck out like sore thumbs most of the time on both shows. The Jensen Buchanan debacle, which culminated in a lawsuit, speaks for itself.

She made the choice to drive both Sarah Brown and Amber Tamblyn off the show before their time. She also was allegedly instrumental in pushing Genie out the door. This is a pattern for Jill that goes back to GL with women - particularly and especially women - who she finds to be an existential threat to her vision for a show.

It's been decades of this. I don't care what Jill has learned, because I don't think her work has ever been worth it and I don't think Y&R is any good. And I heard enough of the stories of GH going overbudget in her era (however many were true or not). We're all getting older but one thing I have less time for is dinosaurs of the industry getting their umpteenth chance. It didn't work for Paul Rauch or John Conboy and it doesn't work here.

YMMV. That's just how I feel.

10 minutes ago, Vee said:

We're all getting older but one thing I have less time for is dinosaurs of the industry getting their umpteenth chance.

Well, there goes my bid to lure Ed Scott out of retirement, lol.

1 minute ago, Khan said:

Well, there goes my bid to lure Ed Scott out of retirement, lol.

I mean I might allow that exception! I was thinking more of guys with repeat flops.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Vee

2 minutes ago, Vee said:

She is, but precious few are as openly misogynistic as her regimes have consistently been.

GH 2001 was boring to watch, before finally tilting into embarrassing around Endgame. Her OLTL became an absolute slog and gutted the show for years. Most of her friends were wildly unpopular when brought to ABC. OLTL cast/crew and ABC brass alike hated Kale Browne. Some are very talented actors (even Browne wasn't bad) but they stuck out like sore thumbs most of the time on both shows. The Jensen Buchanan debacle, which culminated in a lawsuit, speaks for itself.

She made the choice to drive both Sarah Brown and Amber Tamblyn off the show before their time. She also was allegedly instrumental in pushing Genie out the door. This is a pattern for Jill that goes back to GL with women - particularly and especially women - who she finds to be an existential threat to her vision for a show.

It's been decades of this. I don't care what Jill has learned, because I don't think her work has ever been worth it and I don't think Y&R is any good. And I heard enough of the stories of GH going overbudget in her era (however many were true or not). We're all getting older but one thing I have less time for is dinosaurs of the industry getting their umpteenth chance. It didn't work for Paul Rauch or John Conboy and it doesn't work here.

YMMV. That's just how I feel.

The problem is 'new' people coming in, especially those without experience in daytime, is going to be just as much of a risk as re-hiring the old guard, because they don't understand how things run and they are not taught things in the way they used to be with the likes of William J. Bell, Agnes Nixon, etc. I don't deny that Jill's history speaks for itself. I've always said she has made some questionable decisions, but at the same time, I've also said she runs with a business mindset, not a creative one. I've always held that perspective where Jill is concerned. And that comes with positives and negatives. But I also cannot sit and say she produces a boring show (I'm not saying you are saying that), but if I were comparing Frank to Jill, it's going to be Jill I'd go with. Budget be damned. Yes, she may have produced a show overbudget, but we never suffered visually from it.

We can applaud Frank for the set changes he has made, but that can only go so damn far. Sets cannot carry the show visually. Everyone continues to mention Genie and Jill, but Genie has always spoken highly of Jill, and I feel that Jill has done the same regarding Genie.

3 minutes ago, Khan said:

Well, there goes my bid to lure Ed Scott out of retirement, lol.

Ew. He should never be on a soap set ever again.

I watched enough of Jill's shows to never be that impressed with her visual style at GH. Because a lot of it was there in the Riche era, as was the strong editing work and montages, music choice, etc. I miss the fog, the sounds of the harbor, certain sets like the old docks. But Jill was not responsible for those; they pre-dated her. As a stylist she was fine. It wasn't as overly lit, but nor is the current show exactly Paul Rauch's GL (as it veered towards in the early-mid 2010s). There are visual things I would change, but I don't need JFP for them.

After reading several postings in the past few weeks and watching the recent episodes up until last night, I am starting to think GH will surprise us with Jacinda & Kristina pairing especially after the "in the closet" line. They do share chemistry quite well at this point...

Thoughts?

I think they might. I also don't care.