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  • Member

For all of the praise that MVJ receives? Get it together madam. It's yours. I stated a year ago that certain things were going to be required for this show's success.

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  • Member
37 minutes ago, Chris B said:

I agree. I feel like the changes they need to make are more positive than anything. For example, audience has responded to Shanice so I think it would be smart to start fleshing her out and making her a more regular character. Same for Doug and Dr. Carlton.

The only real negative I'd like them to address is to find a way to justify keeping Ashley and Derek around. We know the show loves them but the viewers do not so they really need to find something that makes those characters work if we're stuck with them.

I've said it before, but I think Ashley and Derek are there to diversify the cast and have some White representation on the show to quell certain demographics. CBS did settle an idiotic lawsuit with that dummy over Kamala Harris' 60 Minutes interview so they seem to be the skittish type of network.

Ashley and Derek are non-offensive, bland types. Vanessa and Kenny are the only other White characters who have had any real active storyline. With Vanessa cheating on her Black doctor husband with a criminal White man and Kenny being an outright racist blackmailer CBS was going to have some harmless White characters on the front burner.

  • Member
4 hours ago, Chris B said:

Yes, I feel like September is the likely point we can see any revisions. I'm excited to see where they take the show in the fall. They keep things so quiet on set (which I love) so we really have no idea what they've done. I'm very curious if there will be any cast additions. One I'm hopeful for is Dr. Carlton in a regular capacity.

I knew you would love to be vindicated so I'm happy we know now. And I'm happy to have a point in time where I will more than likely be as picky as I currently am with Y&R...and it is at the six month point actually.

 

They really do a good job with keeping things quiet. Like right now due to all the discussions about sets, my latest question is...have we officially gone through all the standing sets yet? Because I still feel we have some in waiting, but I'm probably wrong. And I do wonder at the six month point will we start to see redressed sets for example? Cuz yeeeeah, I kinda would like to see Jacob and Naomi's place. 

 

OMG YES. While I'm really starting to get used to NuTed and Keith does appear to be making him his own, watching Y&R (and specially Jermaine Rivers) is making me miss the presence that Maurice bought to his role. And Carlton has his own spin on that vein so I hope he turns into a regular or gets used like how Doug is used since the actor is recurring, but has been used nicely as a doctor, but with his own storyline which was IMHO best developed B storyline so far. 

4 hours ago, dragonflies said:

That's something MVJ learned working at B&B, cause Brad Bell does the same thing, we'll get something for certain characters, then all of a sudden they vanish for weeks to focus on something else, then they come back to it. It's jarring to say the least

tbf, that's not just a Brad Bell thing. GH in my regular viewing has always...especially under RC been the King Queen of that.

 

2 hours ago, ReddFoxx said:

Some tinkering wouldn't hurt, but for a new show the initial wrinkles have not been overwhelming. The start was the Dani show, then it transitioned into being more about Leslie and Eva plotting then when that revelation dropped the direction shifted towards slowly processing that fallout.

Now we are seeing other plots step up as I we should be getting Martin's revelation very soon which will entangle with the other Richardson drama which may possibly include paternity shakeups later on. There is also the potential stalker story for Chelsea (Allison is giving creepy vibes, IMO) and Hayley/Leslie appearing to team up.

And I admit...even with the flaws in their logic...at least from GO we know what the main A stories were from Episode 1. Dani/Bill/Hayley, SilkPress, Martin's Secret. And while the pacing of the A plots (other than SilkPress) was annoying, because it was paced the way it was, it allowed for the characters to grow so that the audience could get invested when stuff got moving. Like Martin's Secret. I was annoyed it was on the backburner to the point where it almost fell off, but I can't hate on how much I care now due to them showing Smitty/Martin's life...especially in Month 2. The fighting over Smitty going back to work. Dealing with the kids. Bill toying with the marriage. And NOW Martin's main storyline is blowing up. Bonus...BC got to grow comfortable enough in the role so it was better off it was put on the backburner.

 

Outside of the lack of Nicole up 'til now, I have enjoyed the slow fallout from the anniversary party. They did such a good job of having other storylines set up from the main story that the story parts stay relevant. And I stay liking watching how the writers are trying to find a way to get to Silk Press Sheila out of the corner. Will she wiggle out? I guess we will see. 

1 hour ago, Chris B said:

For example, audience has responded to Shanice so I think it would be smart to start fleshing her out and making her a more regular character. Same for Doug and Dr. Carlton.

+ 1

45 minutes ago, ReddFoxx said:

I've said it before, but I think Ashley and Derek are there to diversify the cast and have some White representation on the show to quell certain demographics. CBS did settle an idiotic lawsuit with that dummy over Kamala Harris' 60 Minutes interview so they seem to be the skittish type of network.

Ashley and Derek are non-offensive, bland types. Vanessa and Kenny are the only other White characters who have had any real active storyline. With Vanessa cheating on her Black doctor husband with a criminal White man and Kenny being an outright racist blackmailer CBS was going to have some harmless White characters on the front burner.

That's how I feel about them as well. I know I'm in the minority, but I like them though I want to shake Ashley. 

  • Member
17 hours ago, Vee said:

I frankly think there is such a focus on the show being 'down to earth' and slowly setting up its stakes, while also following the tried and true modern version of the Bell formula MVJ likely learned at B&B (a lot of grand pronouncements, and stating and restating dynamics and issues - I'm not saying classic Y&R was always like modern B&B, but there is a specific tone you get on those shows that isn't replicated on ABC or ATWT/GL), that a lot more overt and dramatic developments have yet to flourish. Which can be tiresome.

It's good that they made Eva pop so quickly, but the show is still finding its way. And I think part of the issue is they seem so dedicated to following the playbook MVJ learned from her years of guaranteed longevity at CBS while building out the family history, when I don't think more of that is needed. I think more action is needed, and less talk. And I frankly think pulling more of MVJ's compatriots from GH out of retirement would be welcome on the dialogue stuff, even if the Guza/Labine GH school of naturalistic dialogue is not fully in sync with the more portentous B&B/Bell style of plotting and recapping. At the same time, other dialogue is so hyper-modern (a la the Prospect Park soaps) that it's sometimes cringe. But audiences are responding to both.

Yes! You explained something I couldn't quite articulate in the past. 90s GH as well as AMC and OLTL had more natural dialogue. Y&R was/is very plot oriented.

  • Member
5 hours ago, dragonflies said:

That's something MVJ learned working at B&B, cause Brad Bell does the same thing, we'll get something for certain characters, then all of a sudden they vanish for weeks to focus on something else, then they come back to it. It's jarring to say the least

That's actually my main criticism: in terms of style, it's too B&B-like.

  • Member

yep I feel like some of things I see are cause of her time on B&B. Leslie should have already been written out, given a "rest" she's doing what Brad did with Sheila, have her do despicable things then bend over backwards to try and keep her around no matter what.

  • Member

I don't mean classic Y&R was solely plot-oriented. But it had (from what I've watched, anyway) a very specific and fascinating tone and language. Character issues, traits, throughlines with a person or their family or neuroses or goals would be stated and restated almost in ritualistic ways again and again or played out through recurring situations, and at times in very florid prose. It was beautiful but it was very different from, say, an ABC soap. You knew when you turned the dial from one to the other on your TV, they did not look, sound or feel the same. Modern B&B has a version of this kind of classic formula, but it's much more repetitious, clunky and tiresome as they mouth the same platitudes and pronouncements over and over.

I think a lot of that formula is at play in BTG. And I can understand it, because its arch tone served B&B well for decades with a loyal global audience. The Bell soaps have remained at the top even when they shouldn't in recent years in part because of that house style. But latter-day B&B's bastardization of that formula is not the kind of style I especially love, and I would love to see more ABC naturalism in the dialogue.

As it is, BTG remains a fascinating sort of mix to me: Classical soap style or even Irna Phillips-esque recapping in some scenes or stories, mixed with other scenes of very cutting-edge trendy dialogue or subject matter. Both of which can either sing or veer on ugly depending on the moment or scene.

Edited by Vee

  • Member
27 minutes ago, dragonflies said:

yep I feel like some of things I see are cause of her time on B&B. Leslie should have already been written out, given a "rest" she's doing what Brad did with Sheila, have her do despicable things then bend over backwards to try and keep her around no matter what.

It would be really quick to write Leslie out considering she is still under investigation and there are still story elements not revealed. Unlike Sheila, Leslie has been ostracized and has no friends.

  • Member

Sheila has been haunting Y&R and B&B since at least the George W. Bush administration. Leslie has been onscreen for less than six months. I think it's a bit early to make that kind of comparison. She hasn't bombed anybody like an ABCD villain yet.

  • Member

Well, I knew what you meant, Vee. You have done a great job over the last few months hitting on the head a good description of the mix of styles IMO. I think someone else got their Bell soaps mixed up, however. 

  • Member
6 hours ago, ReddFoxx said:

Vanessa and Kenny are the only other White characters who have had any real active storyline

What about our boy, Smitty?

 

  • Member
9 minutes ago, Gatecrashers said:

What about our boy, Smitty?

 

He just give looks. ;)

 

Joking!!!

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