DAYS: Who’s worse Higley or Carlivati

[AbcNbc247]

Now, I just see it as evidence that he was checked out in 2019

[Liberty City]

Well, 2019 is when Sheri Anderson announced she had left the writing team, so that tracks!

[Vee]

Wasn't Anderson speculated to be one of the scab/fi-cores this past year?

[Wendy]

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[Liberty City]

There was speculation, yes, but never any confirmation.

[dc11786]

I found a lot of joy in Higley/Whitsell/Tomlin's 2008-2011 run that not only saved the show from cancellation, but also reconstructed the show into something viable that wasn't Wish version James E. Reilly. For me, there was an emphasis on relationships (romantic, familiar, and platonic) and the deeper emotional lives of the characters that hadn't been present in years. Also, moving away from the years of supercouples fans creatively crippling the show with their demands by removing most of those fanbases was such a breath of fresh air on a stagnant, stale show. 

The baby switch was a multi-arc umbrella plot that managed to go on for a year and ended with a beautiful confrontation between Nicole and Sami pitting two of the show's strongest characters against each other.  Nicole and Chloe's "enemy of my enemy is my friend" partnership is something that lasted for many years after Higley left because it was something that added a richness to the canvas. Nicole and Brady's romantic tension was the pre-cursor to the Nicole / Father Eric tension that I loved as much. I found Chloe / Daniel deliciously sleazy from their affair when Chloe was engaged/married to Lucas to Chloe's one-night stand with Phillip leading to the baby's conception. 

I thought humanizing VIctor Kirakis and Stefano Dimera while still letting them have an edge was a smart move. I thought Stefano having a soft spot for his innocent grandson Theo and Victor occassionally showing a heart gave both characters a richness that had been missing. Throwing Kate Roberts and Vivian Alamain into the mix was just a delightful quartet that should have played out for several years longer than it should. 

Melanie Layton, while controversial, was a character who energized the younger set who had been mostly filled with goody two shoe legacy children (though I do regret that the show dumped Kristen Renton's rich bitch Southern Belle Morgan Hollingsworth). I thought Nathan / Melanie were a strong couple and the quad with Phillip and Stephanie was highly effective. Nathan confronting Stephanie in her wedding dress about her involvement in Parker's paternity  switch was excellent and had followed the brief arc of Nathan and Melanie in quarantine after being exposed to some contagious disease (carried by a character played by Franscico San Martin several months before he appeared as Dario).

I thought Carly's affair with Bo was a logical outcome of the year or more of tension between Bo and Hope stemming from unresolved issues related to Zach's death. Bo's inability to be completely honest with Hope about Chelsea's involvement was echoed in Hope's shooting of Kayla, Ciara Brady's kidnapping by cop Dean Hartman, and later Bo's involvement in helping Carly find her child. Carly showing up at Maggie's after Mickey's death to be greeted by Hope only for Hope to go in on Carly for the affair was potential domestic drama I hadn't seen done well in many years on the show. 

I didn't catch as much of 2015-2017 as I did 2008-2011, but what I saw was fairly enjoyable, though often a bit underdeveloped. I liked the twist that Chloe was carrying Daniel and Nicole's baby even though it made no sense timeline wise. Chloe wanting to keep Holly from Deimos worked for me. The return of Valerie Grant, David Banning's death, and the reveal that Eli was David's son all worked for me, though I would have brought David back from the dead at some point. I found Paul and Sonny on the island while Paul suffering Island Fever or whatever the kind of romantic angsty story that Days had done for years with straight couples and I was for it. I thought the return of Anjelica Devereaux was good. I thought Adrienne's cancer (scare?) after her mother Jo had suffered the disease was an interesting move. I thought the Orwell device was another silly Days style plot that worked me as it involved the right grouping forcharacters. I liked the remarriage of Steve and Kayla, the introduction of Tripp, and Kayla helicoptering Joey when he became involved with Jade. Killing Daniel in a car crash while Eric and Brady both needed a heart was effective for me. 

I think Higley had a stronger script writing team than Carvilati, who were able to take some of the more threadbone ideas she is purported to produce and turn them into something of depth.  

Someone mentioned in this thread that Carvilati's characters are grey for lack of a better term. There is little consideration for motivation. I concur; he may understand the history of the show, but there never seems to be an understanding of why characters did what they did in the past. There is not a single universe I can imagine where Ivan was allowed to keep Vivian from her child for DECADES and Ivan doesn't end up be buried alive. Also, having a double wedding for Paul/Sonny and Abigail/Chad where the spoiler Ben is a bigger threat to Sonny/Paul than Abigail/Chad demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of one of the last strong younger couples that "Days of our Lives" had produced. The less said about how a white cop shot an autistic person of color and the cop was the victim the better. Same for whatever the show has attempted with Leo Stark. Killing off characters without much fanfare (Bill, Laura) was disappointing. 

I will credit Carvilati for salvaging the show's ratings when he came on as the final months of Higley were quite low, but I cannot say that I've enjoyed anything I've seen since. Even when things seems to show promise, it is ultimately crippled by cheap jokes, an emphasis on returning vet characters who appear for several weeks and are gone again, or an emphasis on nostalgic references rather than creating any true moments of emotional intimacy between characters and each other or characters and the audience. 

To me, one of Carvilati's greatest sins was giving Allie Horton a story that should have gone to her sister Sydney. Sydney returning and turning to Nicole would have resonated much deeper in my opinion than Allie. I felt choosing Allie for the plot was due to her connection to the Hortons, rather than choosing the character who had ties with Nicole already.

Also, how Justin is married to Bonnie and Adrienne remains dead will never make any sense to me. 

[1974mdp]

I watched DAYS for many years but finally gave up not long after the switch to Peacock...although the switch was not the reason I stopped. I started to become disenchanted with the show when Ben, the serial killer, became the hero after "taking some medicine." If they really wanted to keep the actor, they should have had him switch roles sooner or play Ben's twin. To get all of the characters to forgive a serial killer and make him "the good guy" was just too much of a stretch for me.

I've liked some of RC work on OLTL and even some of what he did when he first started on DAYS. I appreciate that he likes to use the veteran actors and tries to incorporate history at times. I loved the introduction of Gwen (and Cady as Jennifer!) but then it went off the rails with Laura being killed (WTF?) and Gwen not being developed for long-term. It would have been so good to have a Abby and Gwen rivalry that went on for years which would have kept Jack and Jenn tied to story...but I digress.

The things that finally turned me off the show were:

1. All the false conflict started by mask wearing. It was so stupid and just a lazy way to try and create conflict. It also made all the characters involved look like idiots. Don't even get me started on Marlena, Kayla, and Kate being "put on ice."

2. RC doesn't seem to understand that the Dimeras worked better in small doses. They came in and caused some conflict at times which worked, but under his writing, they have eaten the show to the detriment of other families we actually cared about (Hortons, Bradys, Carvers). Do we really need characters such as Stefan, for instance??? Chad works because of the actor that plays him, and that character should just be used as a  contrast to EJ. We don't need all of the others. Kristen is a cartoon at this point. Johnny has never been really developed as a character. The only Dimera I would advocate for adding would be Theo as a Carver/Dimera. There's a lot of possibility there to have a character torn between two very different worlds as Lexi was also.

3. The dismantling of the Hortons also turned me off. To me, they've always been the heart of the show since I watched it as a child. But, now hardly of them are around anymore. Who's left at this point? Julie who pops up on occasion? Sarah who rarely leans into being a Horton? Maggie who's being written as more of a Kiriakis at this point? RC wrote out soooo many characters who have some Horton roots....Abby, JJ, Allie, Lucas, Will, Hope, Jennifer, Eli, Shawn, Ciara, Claire.  

4. The obsessive need to make certain characters work that aren't working...looking at you Alex and Leo. Those two have taken up SOOOOO much airtime that could be spent on developing much more interesting characters and stories.

[Soaplovers]

Higley was the lesser of two evils... only because of the Sydney baby switch and Night time Hope....and she created two new female characters with potential (Mia and Melanie)....and utilized Stephanie Johnson as a strong grey character.

RC starts strong...but after awhile..his stories become one note and repetitive.

Edited June 23, 2024 by Soaplovers

[j swift]

I don't know if it is fair to say that “he” wrote them out, as much as production decided to cut them loose and he penned their exit storylines.  Given what we now know about the backstage politics at DAYS.  It seems incorrect to pin this on him as an employee of a broken system.

I would propose that many of us confuse the writers as the impetus, rather than the response, to the whims of the production.  But, I totally concur about the overuse of masks, and the suspension of disbelief necessary to believe that smart characters never question their circumstances. 

Edited June 23, 2024 by j swift

[dragonflies]

Hackley was so bad, she got Erika Slezak calling for her head on a platter and that woman rarely ever speaks out against head writers.

But I think both are equally bad period

 

Edit yes I know this was about Days, but I'm going by their overall stints at all shows

Edited June 23, 2024 by dragonflies

[AbcNbc247]

Well, that is true about some of the characters mentioned. But I do believe that he is totally to blame for Abigail and Will (and Sonny too) being written out.

He clearly hated the character of Abigail and wanted her gone. And let's not even talk about how ridiculous it was that at the same time he killed off Abigail with a simple stab wound, he brought back Stefan, who had no heart or brain activity

As for Will and Sonny, it all goes back to 2018-2019. With the way it the storyline was written, I think he wanted Will/Paul back then (and tbf, we all wanted Will/Paul lol) My guess is that after Christopher Sean decided to leave, he was instructed to reunite Will and Sonny and he just quit caring about the characters. Everything Will and Sonny did until they were written out in September 2020 was so plotty and contrived that you practically tell there was no interest in them. It was like they were just there to fill the episode guarantees. And unfortunately, by the time he did seem interested in Will and Sonny, not only did they have to deal with Chandler Massey's schedule, the obsession with Leo had taken over. I shudder to think what would have happened between Sonny and Leo if Zach Tinker hadn't left.

As much as I love the characters and actors, them being offscreen really is the best thing.

[j swift]

On the other hand, Abigail had driven story for a number of years while RonC was at DAYS, but casting issues may have limited the future of the character.  And, as you mentioned, CM's availability doomed that duo. 

Again, the debate has yet to resolved if those events were caused by the writing, or a reaction to the desires of the production.  One assumes that blame could be placed upon a variety of people and forces.  And I wonder how often we blame writers because they are the most front facing forces behind the scenes, yet they may not have the power to direct the focus of the drama at will.

Edited June 23, 2024 by j swift

[AbcNbc247]

I guess, but it just seemed like there was a real change in interest once the whole Chad/Abby-Gabby/Stefan triangle turned out to be a bust. 

[j swift]

Not to keep volleying the debate, although you make such excellent points that it is hard not to respond.  It could also be argued that the triangle was a bust due to an actor issue, which necessitated a recast, and may have changed the trajectory of the proposed story, which is not the fault of the writer.

And, we'd have to define a “bust.”  Was it a flop creatively?  Well, that is subjective.  Was it a flop with ratings?  Well, very few stories have improved ratings at DAYS before the move to Peacock.  Was it a flop among online fans? Well, we know that the vocal audience online does not always represent the target audience that the show is trying to maintain.  So, we need to agree on the terms of how we measure the comparison between the two writers, because there is no objectively correct answer.

Edited June 24, 2024 by j swift

[Michael]

I think the blowback to the Stefan/Abby/Chad thing was pretty negative, but Ron moved Stefan on to the Gabi pairing (and then killed him off and created Jake when that actually proved popular) pretty quickly. Marci Miller left in the middle of the DID story, and they brought Kate Mansi in, kept her until the story was resolved, WROTE A DIGITAL SERIES FOR HER, and brought her and Chad back when they did the time jump. Then Mansi wouldn't commit, and they brought Miller in and kept using her for as long as they could until she wouldn't work anymore. So I agree the DID story was awful and offensive, but I don't think it boiled down to "Ron hated the character." 

He also didn't choose to write out Jennifer, Hope, Ciara, Will, or Eli. Or even Claire, really. (ORK left and they recast and it was terrible.) Not saying the writing for any of these people or their stories was even decent, but he didn't shuffle them all offscreen with force.