GH: June 2024 Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

I don't know if it was Frons or Guza who tried to railroad Becky Herbst off the show at that time (until fan backlash got in the way). Looking back it's hard to even remember the show investing that much in Sam and Jason to the point of killing Jake because I never felt like they had a great deal of interest in Sam herself. This was when they had her honeymoon involve being raped. I guess it was all about which slampiece Guza wanted for his avatar Jason, not about Sam herself.

[titan1978]

They really put Becky through it. And I have never understood why. By all accounts, especially back then, she was professional  not one of the problem children on set. Didn’t complain about her scripts or ridiculous pairings either. And she was legit a fan favorite. I mean her fans saved her job!

[carolineg]

Yes!  I would also state I think it was a clear way to pave the way out for BH and have her go crazy after the loss of Jake.   I also think the show knew JJ was not going to re-sign so Liz had reached her end lol.

I think Guza also went into hyper drive after he knew he was losing Vanessa and therefore S/B and needed to move Sam/Jason along quickly.  They both were pretty happy with their relationship and where they were at until Summer 2011 when they needed to immediately get engaged and then married in a Chinese restaurant.  Which, come to think of it, the whole story was an actual disservice to Jasam fans.

Lulu/Dante also married quite quickly after Summer 2011 in a pretty non-eventful wedding even though I am pretty sure that was Garin Wolf.

I think that was a weird time where the show wanted to erase any trace of botching their Brenda/Lucky return mistakes which included firing Ingo and Becky and just move everything else along so no one noticed.

[Vee]

I think it was a combination of people including possibly JFP (though I think according to the lore she may have been the one who went to them after the backlash, showed them feedback and said it wasn't going to work). Allegedly Frank tried to do his well-known (dating back to OLTL) lowball offer and let go maneuver to bump Becky a little under a decade ago, and also failed. That was when she (again, allegedly) almost went to DAYS to play Abby.

They (particularly Frons) were obsessed with Jasam for the bulk of Guza II and for years after, that only ended when Kelly and Steve clearly were done working with each other around 2020. The only time they deviated was when Kelly was possibly leaving in the mid-late 2000s, which led to Liason, Jake and Sam's brief and wonderful period as a vixen/villainess with her own TV show, etc. I still wonder what happened BTS in '20 to make them end it so quickly and cleanly after decades.

The honeymoon 'rape' (Franco didn't actually rape her, so he claimed anyway) was Garin Wolf though.

I thought the Chinese restaurant was also Wolf. I never bought Lulu and Dante marrying so fast.

[carolineg]

You are correct-my mistake.  I just felt like panic mode a bit to have both those couples marry so quickly.  

And I wonder if Guza put some plans into play before Wolf took over.  It's entirely possible the show/Wolf threw them all out, but there was a lot of turmoil between March 2011-August 2011 at least.

Edited June 15 by carolineg

[Vee]

I think a big part of what ended Jasam was possibly the whole Billy Miller drama BTS, where Kelly was extremely vocal offscreen and with fans, on social media, etc. about being for Drew and Sam staying together and not a Jasam reunion after Steve first returned in '17(?). She clearly seemed pissed and bitter about how her SO was treated, and frankly she was right that they had a lot more chemistry than her and Steve. Since then I believe Kelly has done a tearful, embarrassing mea culpa to their fans at fan events in the hopes of shoring up her audience.

To me Drew and Sam was the natural organic evolution for her character, as Sam had actually done the mature thing and pretty decisively turned the page and retired from her ride or die action junkie life with Jason as soon as she'd had Danny - first in her flirtation with John McBain (which should've gone further, John on GH was the only time I've liked him) then after Jason's 'death' in 2012, and then in her normal non-mob romances with guys like Silas, Patrick, etc. She made a choice and she articulated it onscreen more than once, and she only really relapsed when Steve's Jason returned IMO. Yes, Sam and BM's "Jason" had action and crime stuff early on but he was always a heroic man much more open with his emotions, loving and inclusive with his first son and with the Quartermaines, a man who embraced the Qs and Monica, etc. (They attempted to transplant some of these traits onto Steve when he returned but I never bought it.) Then Drew moved away from the mob entirely and into business, and they tried to paint this as him hemming Sam in and her not wanting to go straight when they were prepping for Steve's return. But Sam had already moved away from the mob long before Drew first appeared, so that was a fallacy.

Before Steve left last time and before they'd broken up, I'd always wanted them to write Sam off as her simply slowly growing disenchanted with their violent and regressive life (which she did anyway in 2020, in record time) and quietly leaving him with the strong implication that she was rejoining his brother Drew (as played by Miller) somewhere else. She's done all this again with Dante now, of course.

Both of those insta-marriages felt very rushed and pat. As did suddenly bringing back Kate, recast (though tbh I thought Kelly Sullivan did a solid job with Kate early on pre-Connie). That's when I knew they were out of ideas. How do you really follow up Sonny and Brenda married and the incredible confessional scenes that ended their marriage? Answer: You don't, unless you go back to an old favorite from the past.

Edited June 15 by Vee

[carolineg]

The idea of bringing back Kate was solid, but way too soon.  KeSu was always wrong for the part and way too young-even if I think she's a capable actress at times.  I would have waited 6 months and re-introduced Megan Ward as Kate.  But, again, I don't know what Guza left behind or how quickly GW had to move to prove himself worthy of the job.

And I know, I know, I am the resident Jax defender here(not Ingo), but it was a mistake to write Jax off at that time as well because he was the only one willing to call Sonny out on being a douche to Brenda and in general.  And just left without getting any sort of revenge on Carly/Sonny for setting him up for RAPE just to get Carly custody of Joss.  Although, I guess he low key got revenge by leaving with Brenda in the end.

[Vee]

Big mistake. Back then I still thought Jax was very viable and that letting him and their family life slip away by screwing him over in the divorce was the biggest mistake Carly had made in years. (And clearly someone on staff agreed given the great evisceration Alexis gave her onscreen not long after.) Today I don't care, but back then I thought she badly needed to atone. Same old story with Carly.

I've already said many times how those excellent S&B ending scenes were the end of being able to do romance with Sonny and anyone unless it's resolved between the two of them, so I won't go back over that.

Edited June 15 by Vee

[carolineg]

Jax was still very viable and Ingo was doing some of his best work, but like you said it doesn't matter now.  It was just frustrating at the time because Jax just left.  And Carly and Sonny just got what they wanted.  No one even cared (except Robin) that Sonny tried to literally kill Jax lol.

The S&B ending scenes were excellent.  Brenda backsliding a bit on it in 2013 was not my favorite, but they still had a hopeful? ending even those it's been 11 years lol.

[DRW50]

Thanks. I forgot about the attempt to get rid of her a decade ago. No wonder some worry she's in that place again (at least she had some strong scenes this past week). 

Hot tub fun time Sam was probably the peak of her character. 

I had forgotten Wolf did the rape or not rape story (did Guza have Michael raped or was that not him either?).

[carolineg]

Michael was raped in prison.  He confirmed it on screen in 2010.  The whole Franco being responsible for it was backtracked though.  Carter was his actual rapist I believe.

[DRW50]

I was trying to remember if Guza was headwriter then - if it was 2010 then I guess he must have been.

Talking about those years is much easier than trying to watch them was...

[carolineg]

He was still.  The show hemmed and hawed about the whole rape thing for a long while with Michael, but I think in December 2010 he came admitted it to Jason, Carly, Sonny et al.   I will say I might be a month or so off, but it was definitely when Sonny/Brenda were together and before they got married. 

ETA- I looked it up.  Michael admitted he was raped on Jan 31, 2011.  So Guza was still involved. I was just off on dates.

Edited June 15 by carolineg

[Vee]

Then I think they brought the Carter actor back for one day for that idiotic scene where Carlivati had a prison surveillance tape 'proving' Roger's Good Guy Franco didn't want him to rape Michael.

And ironically, after leaving for DAYS RC later confirmed that he'd wanted Franco to tell Carly in 2014 after their Todd/Blair ripoff not-wedding 'by the way, I really did have Michael raped'. FV or the network vetoed it. And this was when he was still trying to keep serial killer Franco as a romantic lead with Nina post-Carly!

Ron later got to play this card with Gwen on DAYS, where she gets caught out at the altar and tells Jennifer she killed Laura Horton after all, and we were still expected to root for Gwen. He just doesn't know when to stop, he thinks anything is possible.

Pretty sure Guza wasn't out til what, July or August? 

Edited June 15 by Vee

[carolineg]

I don't even want to get into the Franco character and how his misdeeds were whitewashed and all of it.  It hurts my head.  They couldn't find a non-serial killer for RH to play?  Out of 100s of GH characters?