31 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Given how much Luke despised Carly and how much of an outsider she was for a number of years, it's strange sometimes to remember that she and her children are now the only real Spencer family left. There's Aidan, of course, but he's never going to be a major character, and will be lucky to live to his 20th birthday. I guess Lulu has kids too, I don't know, but they don't seem to have much purpose. 

If Geary, Francis, etc. had not been so allegedly precious about JJ as the only Lucky, I wonder how different things might have been. Geary in particular was awful on that front. And now it's pretty much too late for Lucky or Lulu to ever be whatever they may have been intended to be - they would likely meet the fate of perpetual dead space like Belle and Shawn on DAYS.

I don't think it's a Shawn and Belle situation - those two haven't been relevant since the mid-late 2000s. Lucky and Lulu are still popular, revered characters who just need either a good recast or a returning star, both of which are options. The issue is clearing some of FV's deadweight to make room for them.

I think we're well past the days of Aiden dying for no reason, but any major story (or talent) remains to be seen lol.

7 minutes ago, carolineg said:

If I recall correctly she died accidently in a freezer because of Georgie, but not Georgie because someone else killed her.  Morbid for sure.  

Mary Bishop.

11 minutes ago, Vee said:

Mary Bishop.

Thanks! I think I just blocked out that ENTIRE story and character because it was awful as well.  I can't even form an articulate sentence to tell you how much I hated the entire thing.  RIP TC and you know I love him, but two character was one too many.

17 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Thanks! I think I just blocked out that ENTIRE story and character because it was awful as well.  I can't even form an articulate sentence to tell you how much I hated the entire thing.  RIP TC and you know I love him, but two character was one too many.

His weird Southern take on Connor was so bad lol. Those were not good years for TC period.

14 minutes ago, Vee said:

His weird Southern take on Connor was so bad lol. Those were not good years for TC period.

I feel so bad ragging on it now knowing his struggles, but I think GH would at least have been mildly aware, so they put him in a position he shouldn't have been in too.  I do think they did their best to protect TC and keep him employed as well.   So, I will just go with it was a horrible concept and I have no idea what Guza was thinking.   And let's just have Emily raped on top of it.

39 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I feel so bad ragging on it now knowing his struggles, but I think GH would at least have been mildly aware, so they put him in a position he shouldn't have been in too.  I do think they did their best to protect TC and keep him employed as well.   So, I will just go with it was a horrible concept and I have no idea what Guza was thinking.   And let's just have Emily raped on top of it.

It was clear even then something was up with his health, but at the same time TC was heavily featured and in bad story and often doing bad work so I can only feel so sympathetic for him in that period. It was clear the show had it in for him in 2005-on for a good while though, with the rape drama, Courtney affair and Guza making him out to be the loser/heavy opposite Sonny, etc. for a good stretch, then having Nikolas slowly spiraling into less and less impactful story, often with B or C-players (Rebecca, poor Nadine, the Liz affair mess that ruined his character again and subsequent Aiden fight, etc). After 2004 or so, for whatever reason I think Guza mostly lost interest in having OG Nikolas back, it was Sonny and Jason and their women all the way. Much like he lost interest in and began actively disdaining former favorites like Alexis and Jax. Nik was just another one for the pile, same with Lucky without JJ in the role. The instant he got Jonathan back though, the treatment of Lucky flipped on a dime.

For all the dumb story and often bored or bad performances Tyler turned in off and on over the last 20 years though, he was Nikolas like no other and I wish he was here in the role. He was the real deal and could still deliver when he cared and was well.

Edited May 9, 20241 yr by Vee

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

I would say Logan and Cooper had potential and it was ridiculous Diego went out that way.  But I think Guza was entirely over the Alcazar clan.  Didn't Sage die a horrible death too?

Georgie being killed off was just a colossal mistake.

The Duhon stuff seems to be true since he barely worked again and wasn't a bad actor.

It will never not be a missed oppurtunity to have made Cooper a Julia/Brenda brother or perhaps Julia's son.  Like why give him that last name and not go with it?

Lulu had way too many love interests for sure.  And she didn't seem that fun to be around and had chemistry with approximately none of them until Dante appeared.

I don't think Eden is an objectively bad actress and this girl has been playing this role since she was a child/tween.  I just don't think Joss is very likeable either.

Yes. There were actually way more clues pointing Logan than Diego

I agree about Georgie...her generation's Robin I felt.

 

Same on JD and how rare he acted afterwards.

 

Same on there not being another Barrett sibling.  

 

I don't think Eden is a bad actress, either. If anything it's a sign of her skill that audience members feel something that is not indifference. That said, Joss is annoying. 

 

Ah! I see. re: Logan as Text Killer. 

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

Anyhow, Carly being scrappy AF was rootable.

Yeah, I might have hated her, but I can't deny how rootable she was. I only did not root for her when she was up against Bobbie, Robin, and later Elizabeth. 

7 hours ago, Vee said:

It was clear even then something was up with his health, but at the same time TC was heavily featured and in bad story and often doing bad work so I can only feel so sympathetic for him in that period. It was clear the show had it in for him in 2005-on for a good while though, with the rape drama, Courtney affair and Guza making him out to be the loser/heavy opposite Sonny, etc. for a good stretch, then having Nikolas slowly spiraling into less and less impactful story, often with B or C-players (Rebecca, poor Nadine, the Liz affair mess that ruined his character again and subsequent Aiden fight, etc). After 2004 or so, for whatever reason I think Guza mostly lost interest in having OG Nikolas back, it was Sonny and Jason and their women all the way. Much like he lost interest in and began actively disdaining former favorites like Alexis and Jax. Nik was just another one for the pile, same with Lucky without JJ in the role. The instant he got Jonathan back though, the treatment of Lucky flipped on a dime.

For all the dumb story and often bored or bad performances Tyler turned in off and on over the last 20 years though, he was Nikolas like no other and I wish he was here in the role. He was the real deal and could still deliver when he cared and was well.

I tend to remember only the good about TC and ignore the fact he personally checked out long before he left.  When you list off all his awful stories it's really clear how little Guza cared about him.   Nothing expresses it more than being paired with Courtney lol.

I was no Nik/Emily fan, but it was probably a big mistake to kill her off too.  Nik just ended up bouncing from woman to woman and nothing stuck.   

I remember the first day JJ was back as Lucky he instantly jumped about 50 IQ points.  I don't have much love for GV's Lucky, but the poor guy had some horrible writing.

3 hours ago, carolineg said:

I remember the first day JJ was back as Lucky he instantly jumped about 50 IQ points.  I don't have much love for GV's Lucky, but the poor guy had some horrible writing.

Lucky should never have been played by soap hunk types. It was a strange fit both times. I didn’t hate Greg, but as you say he had one terrible story after another.

It is so strange to read Guza’s manifesto was something like “love among the ruins” when it seemed to me to be about misery. I know it got darker and more miserable after his child died, which is very sad. But the show was just hard to watch.

Is GH Perfect with PM & EK? No. GH never has been. There were issues under Wendy Riche, Gloria Monty & Claire Labine. Now I love the longer scenes & the feel of Family & Community. That was missing under CVE, JP,SA & DC. Definite improvement in my opinion. Onward & Upward.

Edited May 9, 20241 yr by John

16 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

Lucky should never have been played by soap hunk types. It was a strange fit both times. I didn’t hate Greg, but as you say he had one terrible story after another.

It is so strange to read Guza’s manifesto was something like “love among the ruins” when it seemed to me to be about misery. I know it got darker and more miserable after his child died, which is very sad. But the show was just hard to watch.

Lucky and Emily to a lesser extent were both unique characters played by memorable actors as children and I don't think the show made the proper choice in recasting either one.   I think Vaughn did what he could with stories like bedding Maxie while addicted to pills and being that guy Liz cheated on.  Making Lucky a cop was an interesting choice as well.  JJ made it work, but it wouldn't be my first choice as his career and I doubt the show would have done had JJ been in the role the entire time.

33 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

Lucky should never have been played by soap hunk types. It was a strange fit both times. I didn’t hate Greg, but as you say he had one terrible story after another.

It is so strange to read Guza’s manifesto was something like “love among the ruins” when it seemed to me to be about misery. I know it got darker and more miserable after his child died, which is very sad. But the show was just hard to watch.

I thought Greg Vaughan did a decent job at balancing out the softer side of Lucky along with the Spencer temper and the generic hunk duties. Guza just never gave him a chance.

JJ Lucky was a mirage, something that never could have been sustained if he hadn't left in 1999. The flop that was his return cemented that for me. Beyond rape fetishists or people who just really love making tumblr gifs of men crying, I have no idea who that was meant to appeal to.

Edited May 9, 20241 yr by DRW50

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

I thought Greg Vaughan did a decent job at balancing out the softer side of Lucky along with the Spencer temper and the generic hunk duties. Guza just never gave him a chance.

JJ Lucky was a mirage, something that never could have been sustained if he hadn't left in 1999. The flop that was his return cemented that for me. Beyond rape fetishists or people who just really love making tumblr gifs of men crying, I have no idea who that was meant to appeal to.

I had never seen JJ as Lucky as I didn’t watch GH in the 90’s. I was so turned off by the constant crying and tears in his eyes in every scene during his comeback. Also he looked so tiny as a cop in comparison to GV as Lucky.

JJ did do a bunch of crying during his return and his buddy/buddy schtick with Jason was weird.  But at the same time Lucky's life was super depressing during his run.  Even JJ said he was sick of the stories.  I will never forget him starring at a Vicodin pill on the floor for an ENTIRE episode.

Back to the current show - I think PM/EK are really struggling with some of the soapier staples that are needed narratively. There’s hardly ever any true cliffhangers anymore, and it feels like each episode ends on an awkward note. There’s a lack of suspense and passion, or someone’s creative vision (if one exists) is being f.ucked over somewhere. And yes, Frank’s sterile and passionless production doesn’t help. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Back to the current show - I think PM/EK are really struggling with some of the soapier staples that are needed narratively. There’s hardly ever any true cliffhangers anymore, and it feels like each episode ends on an awkward note. There’s a lack of suspense and passion, or someone’s creative vision (if one exists) is being f.ucked over somewhere. And yes, Frank’s sterile and passionless production doesn’t help. 
 

 

People have mentioned this earlier and I agree.  The day to day dialogue is snappier and more character based.  Unfortunately a lot of times I can watch 2 or 3 episodes in a row and feel like absolutely nothing happened and I am not excited for the next day.