On 2/15/2024 at 10:13 PM, Soapsuds said:

I'd like to hear your thoughts. I won't bash or judge you. I'd hope no one else would to. I'm sure others are interested in your opinion.

I pick my battles, and this is not one of them.  But for what you said...BIG HUG 🥰

 

21 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

I may pick it up next week based on spoilers

Yeah 😉

Edited February 17, 20241 yr by Jeff

7 hours ago, Althea Davis said:

I don't know what you are talking about. You and me have never had a conversation in which you have asked me a question. What is the question you want answered... ? I have already stated my opinion about what happened was a rape. Zende is a rapist. Bradley Bell made him a rapist. Be mad at him, not at me.

And the way you are speaking, the whole aggressive tone and calling me Honey is a little too much. I posted this gif since I didn't want to call you a name... You can guess what name yourself.

And yes, I am witty and clever and I am not a rape apologist. So I will never NOT call this a rape. As you see, everyone else here is repeating my opinion.

Maybe you need to ask yourself a question, why is it that it's only you that don't see this as a rape. Think about it. And what are these people called? 

PS - I am a male rape survivor. I was taken advantage years ago by a guy, who I thought was a veeery good friend... we drank together and as soon as I was really out of it... he took advantage and later played it out like I had wanted it... I don't want to go into personal detail about what followed. 

This traumatized me... my whole life actually and made me stop drinking with people around. Just in very safe situations. So this conversation is VERY TRIGGERING and very disgusting. THIS WAS A RAPE. And everyone here saw it. 

Thank you for sharing your story and insight into the discussion; your truth speaks volumes. 💓

Bradley never learns. Dude needs to give it up and hand the writing reins to someone else. From his cold dead hands, I’m sure, but like Ken Corday, he’s desecrating his parents’ legacy. The show is unwatchable.

I am sorry this Zende/Luna storyline has triggered any rape survivor, and I am sorry if my comments triggered any rape survivor.

Let me be clear, though: I have NEVER sympathized with a rapist. I have NEVER sided with a rapist.

I have -- multiple times -- talked about how awful this storyline is, how horribly it's written, how terrible it is in every respect. I cannot condemn it more harshly.

If posters here want to call what Zende did a rape and call him a rapist, fine. I disagree. I realize I am out on a limb by myself and that no one has spoken up to agree with me. That could mean that everyone on this board thinks I'm clueless, or it could mean that others who understand my point of view/agree with me just don't want to get involved in what's become a mess.

I have to ask: Based on what we've seen and heard, if this went to trial, would you want Zende to be guilty of rape? Would you want him jailed as a rapist? Because if you don't -- and I don't --you see that this is not a black-and-white situation. You see there's a lot of gray here. A LOT.

Rape is about power and control and violence and domination. At no point can those words be applied to Zende. And that's why I cannot call this a rape.

Part of the reason I'm so disgusted with BOLD is that they wrote this story -- purposefully -- to have all that gray area. They wanted the sex to happen while having no one "responsible." They gave us awful plot to accomplish an end.

6 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

 

If posters here want to call what Zende did a rape and call him a rapist, fine. I disagree. I realize I am out on a limb by myself and that no one has spoken up to agree with me. That could mean that everyone on this board thinks I'm clueless, or it could mean that others who understand my point of view/agree with me just don't want to get involved in what's become a mess.

 

 

Pretty much this. Your aren't clueless but uninformed. 

10 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

 

Rape is about power and control and violence and domination. At no point can those words be applied to Zende. And that's why I cannot call this a rape.

 

It is.

2 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Pretty much this. Your aren't clueless but uninformed. 

It is.

Soapsuds, I think we have a lot in common, and you make me laugh more than anyone here.

However, I'll be honest: just telling me I'm "uninformed" and that "it is" a rape doesn't respond to anything.

I am always willing to learn and even be lectured to, but just telling me I'm wrong doesn't cut it. I tried to write a sincere, thoughtful, respectful post that explained my point of view. I was hoping that others would take me seriously in return.

31 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

 

I have to ask: Based on what we've seen and heard, if this went to trial, would you want Zende to be guilty of rape? Would you want him jailed as a rapist? Because if you don't -- and I don't --you see that this is not a black-and-white situation. You see there's a lot of gray here. A LOT.

 

 

If I was a juror I'd vote for guilty of rape by what is stated by law.

Since Zende is a famous designer and never committed a crime......He would probably get a long probation with community service and counseling classes. I say no prison since Luna would probably blame her mother and not want Zende locked up.

12 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

Soapsuds, I think we have a lot in common, and you make me laugh more than anyone here.

However, I'll be honest: just telling me I'm "uninformed" and that "it is" a rape doesn't respond to anything.

I am always willing to learn and even be lectured to, but just telling me I'm wrong doesn't cut it. I tried to write a sincere, thoughtful, respectful post that explained my point of view. I was hoping that others would take me seriously in return.

Bradley may want to gray it but if you read the law for rape it was.

Luna was wasted and Zende should've known it. There were signs in her behavior that night. Even if she hadn't taken the drug but drunk it is still rape by law.

With that I'm done discussing the topic and shouldn't have watched B&B in the first place. I'm dropping it again. This soap is not worth chatting about when its so poorly written.

Edited February 18, 20241 yr by Soapsuds

14 hours ago, Liberty City said:

Thank you for sharing your story and insight into the discussion; your truth speaks volumes. 💓

Thank you for having the compassion and knowledge to recognize this. ❤️ You are the best. 

Edited February 18, 20241 yr by Althea Davis

I just want to say one thing. It is not at all uncommon for soap fans to discuss specific rapes when there is no question of there being a winnable legal case. Rape is an issue that stands on its own, with or without someone being charged, accused, indicted, found guilty, sentenced, etc. Rape is not only a legal issue. It is also a moral issue & a philosophical one, to boot. If the victim cannot give informed consent, it IS rape. There is no need for any further question or discussion about whether it is or not. By definition, it is. Any other situational aspects can of course be discussed. But not that one question. 

@ranger1rg you & I know each other. Does what I am saying make any kind of sense to you at all? 

Anyway, if this helps, good, and if not, just ignore me. 

1 minute ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

I just want to say one thing. It is not at all uncommon for soap fans to discuss specific rapes when there is no question of there being a winnable legal case. Rape is an issue that stands on its own, with or without someone being charged, accused, indicted, found guilty, sentenced, etc. Rape is not only a legal issue. It is also a moral issue & a philosophical one, to boot. If the victim cannot give informed consent, it IS rape. There is no need for any further question or discussion about whether it is or not. By definition, it is. Any other situational aspects can of course be discussed. But not that one question. 

@ranger1rg you & I know each other. Does what I am saying make any kind of sense to you at all? 

Anyway, if this helps, good, and if not, just ignore me. 

This is something I COMPLETELY agree with and wanted to say, but wasn't understood correctly. 

2 minutes ago, Althea Davis said:

This is something I COMPLETELY agree with and wanted to say, but wasn't understood correctly. 

Sounds like there's been an unfortunate muddle, easy to happen when you have someone who likes to exploit his own fans. 

55 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

If I was a juror I'd vote for guilty of rape by what is stated by law.

Since Zende is a famous designer and never committed a crime......He would probably get a long probation with community service and counseling classes. I say no prison since Luna would probably blame her mother and not want Zende locked up.

Bradley may want to gray it but if you read the law for rape it was.

Luna was wasted and Zende should've known it. There were signs in her behavior that night. Even if she hadn't taken the drug but drunk it is still rape by law.

With that I'm done discussing the topic and shouldn't have watched B&B in the first place. I'm dropping it again. This soap is not worth chatting about when its so poorly written.

This is exactly what happened to me by the way. I was not drugged. I was just very drunk and the person decided that they should violate me, when I am not in the form to say NO. This happens to a lot of people. And let me say... something I have never said on the internet - IT TOOK ME YEARS to UNDERSTAND what had happened to me. To completely understand I was raped. Back then I played it off like Luna... and tried to judge myself and tell myself - I shouldn't have drank at all. That's what A LOT OF VICTIMS DO.

And it is a rape, 100 percent. To say it isn't is as you say... in the most light way to put it - uninformed. And I want to suggest something to people who are stating this is not a rape - respect our opinion and the law's opinion - something very important was published couple of pages ago and should have ENDED this triggering discussion...

And don't continue to ask question after question after question. Why and why and why is he a rapist... This is how a rape-apologists operate and I don't think anyone here is one. AT LEAST I HOPE SO. RAPE APOLOGISTS start asking questions and repeat and repeat and they are never satisfied with WHY IT IS A RAPE. And they always say things like - IT'S gray... or there are details that need to be taken in. I am not saying anyone here is a rape apologist, but I AGREE that they are HARDCORE uninformed.

As Donna said it  -  there is no question if this is a RAPE. It was. IN THE LAW'S EYES IT IS. I actually did my part and called a friend of mine who is an attorney and told him the exact situation - HE CONFIRMED - IT IS A RAPE. 

And the whole trial question... and putting us on the spot to decide what we would choose if we were a jury... I am sorry, but YOU CAN'T ASK THESE QUESTIONS at this point. At least NOT TO ME. I have never agreed to comment whether a person like Zende should get a life sentence or 2 years or nothing at all. I am not going that route, because it's irresponsible... at least that's what I THINK.

We are not a jury and we are not a judge and we don't have all the information to give a verdict in a trial. BUT WE CAN STATE THAT A RAPE IS A RAPE.

And people shouldn't be afraid to speak up. I had people in my PMs supporting my point of view, but telling me they don't want to write it here... because they don't want to be asked questions WHY THEY think this... AND DEFEND their point of view.

OUR POINT OF VIEW, watching A SOAP OPERA is that THIS WAS A RAPE. DISGUSTING, VILE RAPE. The continuation of this conversation in this matter of repeating the same thing every day... is probably going to trigger some victims, myself included.

 

Edited February 18, 20241 yr by Althea Davis

@Althea Davis

No words can say how sorry I am that it happened to you. I hope you have support around you and that you've had a professional to talk about your horrifying violation. 

15 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

@Althea Davis

No words can say how sorry I am that it happened to you. I hope you have support around you and that you've had a professional to talk about your horrifying violation. 

Thank you. I have had different therapists (mostly because I had a horrible childhood) through the years. I think it forever changed the way I trust people. Now I'm okay with mostly everything... other than when people deny an obvious rape... that's when I really start to feel anxious.

TRIGGER WARNING

Spoiler

I have had a boyfriend tell me - you were not raped, you were just drunk and you were flirting probably. Well... how did he get that idea, when I HAD never had given this person any sexual hint anytime. He was a friend, and nothing more. I didn't feel attracted to him. But even if I did feel attracted... it's no way okay to do this when I am drunk. 

He actually I think now in retrospect... was pushing me to drink all night and was encouraging me. Of course - I TAKE the blame for the drinking. But for what happened and me waking up to him doing something I WOULD have NEVER wanted... in midst of drunkenness... I don't remember ever saying No... I was just in complete shock.

But yeah, disgusting. 

 

Edited February 18, 20241 yr by Althea Davis

2 minutes ago, Althea Davis said:

Thank you. I have had different therapists (mostly because I had a horrible childhood) through the years. I think it forever changed the way I trust people. Now I'm okay with mostly everything... other than when people deny an obvious rape... that's when I really start to feel anxious.

TRIGGER WARNING

  Reveal hidden contents

I have had a boyfriend tell me - you were not raped, you were just drunk and you were flirting probably. Well... how did he get that idea, when I HAD never had given this person any sexual hint anytime. He was a friend, and nothing more. I didn't feel attracted to him. But even if I did feel attracted... it's no way okay to do this when I am drunk. 

He actually I think now in retrospect... was pushing me to drink all night and was encouraging me. Of course - I TAKE the blame for the drinking. But for what happened and me waking up to him doing something I WOULD have NEVER wanted... in midst of drunkenness... I don't remember ever saying No... I was just in complete shock.

But yeah, disgusting. 

 

Oh, so so sorry. He was at best an [!@#$%^&*] & at worst an abuser & exploiter. Probably you were both raped & manipulated.