2 hours ago, ironlion said:

Bill Bell: Miserable grand dame resents younger beautiful woman for taking her husband. Stephanie/Brooke B&B, Katherine/Jill Y&R.

Bill Bell: Miserable grand dame resents younger beautiful woman for taking her son. Vanessa/Lorie

32 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Bill Bell: Miserable grand dame resents younger beautiful woman for taking her son. Vanessa/Lorie

2 hours ago, ironlion said:

Bill Bell: Miserable grand dame resents younger beautiful woman for taking her husband. Stephanie/Brooke B&B, Katherine/Jill Y&R.

After taking husband, Younger beautiful woman forces her way into company during bitter separation: Jill at Jabot, Brooke at Forrester after BeLeif.

Bill Bell: red headed/dark haired psychopath uses sexuality to manipulate desperate man: Phyllis/Morgan & Dr.Tim Reid, Sheila & Mike.

Red headed/dark haired psychopath drugs and or rapes high status man in order to get pregnant: Sheila & Dr. Scott, Phyllis & rockstar Danny.

Edited January 10, 20232 yr by ironlion

Bill Bell

Younger sister has insecurities due to weight problem/skin condition Traci/Katie.

De facto head of poorer family resents father who deserted Storm/Snapper

You can definitely make a case for Steffi and Deborah being another iteration of Agnes' classic mother-daughter unit.

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Bill Bell: Miserable grand dame resents younger beautiful woman for taking her son. Vanessa/Lorie

Also Stephanie/Brooke and to a lesser extent Nikki/Sharon.

Adding to Bill Bell

Mother that favors one son over the other: Vanessa, Cora, Stephanie

Upper class background/working class background romantic rivals: Ashley/Nikki, Caroline/Brooke

Edited January 11, 20232 yr by kalbir

James Reilly- not so much in his earlier work, but post DAYS possession through Passions- Characters constantly talking to themselves.

Another trope of Reilly was running mini stories around the larger ongoing plots.  He did this at GL, DAYS, and Passions.  Examples like Belle’s kidnapping being another story told within the frame of Marlena cheating on Roman, without ultimately resolving the main plot, only extending it.

Bob Guza- we spent a lot of time in court with Guza.  Both in little trials and larger ones like Laura with Damian’s death, Luke on trial for “killing” Stefan, Michael’s trial about Claudia, the many Sonny trials.  We saw Alexis, Ric and Scotty in court a lot.

1 minute ago, titan1978 said:

Another trope of Reilly was running mini stories around the larger ongoing plots.  He did this at GL, DAYS, and Passions.  Examples like Belle’s kidnapping being another story told within the frame of Marlena cheating on Roman, without ultimately resolving the main plot, only extending it.

Isn't this just soap?

I guess Reilly's difference was characters constantly being on the cusp of finding out the truth. Every scene before a commercial break would seemingly lead into someone finding out some big secret. This would go on for 6 months at a time. Even if there was a side plot to extend the main plot the main plot would never lose focus because everyone was always reiterating what they were hiding and why.

17 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Agnes liked her young love storyline where the protaganists were the innocent girl and the well meaning good guy who were manipulated by outside forces.But she really really only used it repeatedly on AMC.

I guess Meredith and Larry on early OLTL would qualify.

On AW , Steve wasn't the type. Loving had Stacey and Jack?

On AMC,first there was Phil and Tara. Then Cliff and Nina, followed quickly by Jenny and Greg.

But there really wasn't a next couple to follow that template. At one point when she took over the writing I think Scott and Becca were given that role.

I think Trisha & Steve would be Loving's example.

1 hour ago, Kane said:

I think Trisha & Steve would be Loving's example.

Of course.

and Agnes often had an interloper who had designs on the guy

Jenny/Greg/Liza

Steve/Alice/Rachel

Cliff/Nina/Sybil

Although that triangle is SOAP 101.

15 hours ago, Darn said:

I guess Reilly's difference was characters constantly being on the cusp of finding out the truth. Every scene before a commercial break would seemingly lead into someone finding out some big secret.

Also the very liberal use of fake-outs, in which a long-awaited plot development would unfold onscreen only to be revealed as a character's dream or fantasy. 

20 hours ago, titan1978 said:

James Reilly- not so much in his earlier work, but post DAYS possession through Passions- Characters constantly talking to themselves.

Another trope of Reilly was running mini stories around the larger ongoing plots.  He did this at GL, DAYS, and Passions.  Examples like Belle’s kidnapping being another story told within the frame of Marlena cheating on Roman, without ultimately resolving the main plot, only extending it.

Bob Guza- we spent a lot of time in court with Guza.  Both in little trials and larger ones like Laura with Damian’s death, Luke on trial for “killing” Stefan, Michael’s trial about Claudia, the many Sonny trials.  We saw Alexis, Ric and Scotty in court a lot.

20 hours ago, Darn said:

Isn't this just soap?

I guess Reilly's difference was characters constantly being on the cusp of finding out the truth. Every scene before a commercial break would seemingly lead into someone finding out some big secret. This would go on for 6 months at a time. Even if there was a side plot to extend the main plot the main plot would never lose focus because everyone was always reiterating what they were hiding and why.

This is what soaps today lack the ability to do. Mini stories sandwiched in the main plot, so that it doesn't feel like the main plant is being endlessly prolonged.

For example, while we waited for Bobbie to find out Carly was her daughter, we got the Tony/Carly affair plot, Michael's paternity, and Jason/Robin's breakup inbetween. From that story was a springbord into Carly hiding AJ as Michael's natural father which also launched the Tony kidnapping and marriage to AJ stories. Today its just repeated dialouge and excessive complications that drag.

On 1/10/2023 at 7:21 PM, kalbir said:

Also Stephanie/Brooke and to a lesser extent Nikki/Sharon.

Adding to Bill Bell

Mother that favors one son over the other: Vanessa, Cora, Stephanie

Upper class background/working class background romantic rivals: Ashley/Nikki, Caroline/Brooke

Don’t forget Jill/Nina 

1 hour ago, YRfan23 said:

Don’t forget Jill/Nina 

I'd say Jill/Nina is more like Brooke/Amber and Nikki/Sharon. 

The former wrong side of the tracks girl having to deal with a younger version of herself. 

Was Trish Clayton created by Bill Bell? Was she a Nikki prototype?

5 hours ago, YRfan23 said:

Don’t forget Jill/Nina 

Jill/Nina lines up w/ Nikki/Sharon and Vanessa/Lorie lines up w/ Stephanie/Brooke.

3 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

I'd say Jill/Nina is more like Brooke/Amber and Nikki/Sharon. 

The former wrong side of the tracks girl having to deal with a younger version of herself. 

Brooke/Amber was Bradley's version of Jill/Nina and Nikki/Sharon.

Edited January 12, 20232 yr by kalbir

3 hours ago, kalbir said:

Jill/Nina lines up w/ Nikki/Sharon and Vanessa/Lorie lines up w/ Stephanie/Brooke.

Brooke/Amber was Bradley's version of Jill/Nina and Nikki/Sharon.

Totally agree!