1 minute ago, P.J. said:

Thanks to the "ripped (off) from the headlines" L&O franchise and CSI. Suddenly, I'm hoping the Rockford reboot brings humor back to mystery-solving.

Likely so. This did seem to start in the '00s. I always thought Alias looked drab during the endless promotion for it back then.

If anything should have some humor it's Rockford Files.

6 hours ago, DRW50 said:

It's all just poorly lit misery set to endless drab montages.

This is one reason why I made a conscious decision to pursue aspirations outside of and away from the entertainment industry. They simply don't make the kind of movies and TV shows that I would want to work on (or even watch!) anymore.

On 9/12/2026 at 2:13 PM, kalbir said:

Aaron Spelling shows weren't exactly known for diversity. I somehow remember in the early 1990s Aaron Spelling got some flack for the lack of diversity on 90210 and Melrose.

ER wasn’t that far off, and it was the most popular drama for years. Hell even Saved By The Bell was airing at the same time as 90210/Melrose, so I get why his all white shows were beginning to get criticism. Fox was also actively courting a Black audience for years, which they began to abandon once they got football and became a solidly established mainstream network. By the early 90’s it was noticeable, especially on FOX.

On 9/14/2026 at 3:43 AM, Paul Raven said:

Both Shelly and Tanya were misfire. An Asian or Black angel at that point might have hyped things up a bit.

CBS had an Angels inspired pilot called Ebony, Ivory and Jade that featured Debbie Allen.

They were not the right fit for the show. I do think Kate Jackson, for all her general complaints and less sunny disposition had a serious point though. The first two seasons the stories/cases were better. It was still fun and light for the most part, but by season 3 and beyond things do get sillier. The writing didn’t help them keep going either.

I loved Cheryl as Kris, but there really was magic between the original three angels and Bosley.

20 hours ago, DRW50 said:

If anything should have some humor it's Rockford Files.

They used to be able to tell a fairly gritty story on these types of shows while never forgetting to display the inherent charm of the folks they cast as leads, so even crime stories could have a lighter overall tone. I hope they let Rockford keep that going.

Those old Aaron Spelling shows were cheesy fun. You saw how the other half supposedly lived with the all the clothes, cars, furs, jewels, yachts, private jets, traveling to distant places etc...

Hart to Hart really played up the glamorous jet set lifestyle with an attractive filthy rich couple solving murders in their spare time. I loved the scene in the TV Movie Pilot where the Harts went undercover at a ritzy spa and on the way there, they race each other in a Dino and a Mercedes. That awesome theme song still slaps nearly 50 years later. Here is the full race scene from the Pilot.

8 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I get why his all white shows were beginning to get criticism. Fox was also actively courting a Black audience for years, which they began to abandon once they got football and became a solidly established mainstream network. By the early 90’s it was noticeable, especially on FOX.

Fox built their network off the backs of the African-American audience and that's something they seem to have forgotten. Fox always claims that their first big hits were Married with Children, The Simpsons, 90210, Melrose, and X Files, but they never include In Living Color, Martin, Living Single, and New York Undercover in their list of early hits. The shift with Fox was 1993, 1994 with peak 90210, Melrose taking off, X Files premiering, and getting NFL broadcasting rights.

10 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Fox built their network off the backs of the African-American audience and that's something they seem to have forgotten. Fox always claims that their first big hits were Married with Children, The Simpsons, 90210, Melrose, and X Files, but they never include In Living Color, Martin, Living Single, and New York Undercover in their list of early hits. The shift with Fox was 1993, 1994 with peak 90210, Melrose taking off, X Files premiering, and getting NFL broadcasting rights.

Roc with Charles S. Dutton was another early FOX show.

10 hours ago, titan1978 said:

They used to be able to tell a fairly gritty story on these types of shows while never forgetting to display the inherent charm of the folks they cast as leads, so even crime stories could have a lighter overall tone. I hope they let Rockford keep that going.

Every so often, Rockford had an out-and-out tragic ending*, but for the most part the show avoided misery porn. I've been watching Barnaby Jones, which isn't as overtly lighthearted as Rockford, but also tends for the happily ever after feel (unless they forget to include the tag scene and just run the credits after the case climaxes).

*Off the top of my head, there was the Rockford two-parter where Joyce Van Patten played a lonely woman who wants to help the police and ends up even more isolated with just her scanner to keep her company. Or the very last TV movie, where Hal Linden is falsely accused of serial child molestation (and Kirsten Storms is the opening victim!) and ends up committing suicide because his life's destroyed.

Edited yesterday at 02:29 AM1 day by Franko

12 hours ago, titan1978 said:

Fox was also actively courting a Black audience for years, which they began to abandon once they got football and became a solidly established mainstream network. By the early 90’s it was noticeable, especially on FOX.

3 hours ago, kalbir said:

Fox built their network off the backs of the African-American audience and that's something they seem to have forgotten. Fox always claims that their first big hits were Married with Children, The Simpsons, 90210, Melrose, and X Files, but they never include In Living Color, Martin, Living Single, and New York Undercover in their list of early hits. The shift with Fox was 1993, 1994 with peak 90210, Melrose taking off, X Files premiering, and getting NFL broadcasting rights.

Yup, on both posts, lol! And the same thing would happen later, I think, with UPN and The WB. They, too, would use African-American audiences to help build their lineups until they decided we were no longer necessary (despite all the stats suggesting that so-called "urban audiences" tend to consume more television everyday than their white counterparts).

1 hour ago, Khan said:

UPN and The WB. They, too, would use African-American audiences to help build their lineups

Yes, they did.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

until they decided we were no longer necessary

The shift with UPN and The WB was when their teen dramas took off.

The timeslot change in the final season was the nail in the coffin.

Moved to Sun @8 up against Bunker/One Day on CBS and Chips on NBC all solid performers. Then it was shunted off to Sat @8 a dead zone for ABC for years to play out the final episodes.

11 hours ago, Khan said:

Yup, on both posts, lol! And the same thing would happen later, I think, with UPN and The WB. They, too, would use African-American audiences to help build their lineups until they decided we were no longer necessary (despite all the stats suggesting that so-called "urban audiences" tend to consume more television everyday than their white counterparts).

I will never understand the mentality to do this with their established audiences. Not only because it’s the right thing to do, or how diverse casts lead to richer and often unexplored storytelling in a sea of the same types of stories being told. It’s also money they are just leaving on the table.

I was a a kid/teen when FOX was ascending. I watched In Living Color, 21 Jump Street, Melrose Place, Living Single, Martin, etc because they were entertaining as hell and didn’t feel so stuffy and conservative. Part of that was diversity! Yes I loved X-Files too, but that was also an outlier at the time for the kind of stories they told and how they filmed the show.

13 hours ago, Franko said:

said:

They used to be able to tell a fairly gritty story on these types of shows while never forgetting to display the inherent charm of the folks they cast as leads, so even crime stories could have a lighter overall tone. I hope they let Rockford keep that going.

Every so often, Rockford had an out-and-out tragic ending*, but for the most part the show avoided misery porn.

I think about a show like Cagney and Lacey too. It was a full on drama, and had depth and explored many topics over their caseload. But it also had layers. Not every case was a murder, they investigated all kinds of cases because they were not a major crimes squad. They had fun sometimes, and they really focused on the relationships so that it didn’t feel plot driven and shallow even if it was mostly a procedural. I think a great balance for a new iteration of Charlie’s Angels would be to lean into richer characterizations so they could still have any type of case, but the more modern audience would still get to know the women in a way the earlier shows did not. Make the case of the week nature of the show feel fresher.

I think one thing that ironically kept all these shows "fresh" was that while they could tackle serious issues, they always had to find ways to be less explicit about it so kids could still watch it have those bits fly over their heads. I've been watching Gunsmoke off-and-on for a bit now and I've been surprised at how "gritty"/"dark" some stories were, but obviously if it was produced today - aside from some outdated stereotypes - it would be criticized for not being explicit enough about certain things (like a review said, ms Kitty wasn't selling chocolate at her saloon!).

2 hours ago, te. said:

I think one thing that ironically kept all these shows "fresh" was that while they could tackle serious issues, they always had to find ways to be less explicit about it so kids could still watch it have those bits fly over their heads. I've been watching Gunsmoke off-and-on for a bit now and I've been surprised at how "gritty"/"dark" some stories were, but obviously if it was produced today - aside from some outdated stereotypes - it would be criticized for not being explicit enough about certain things (like a review said, ms Kitty wasn't selling chocolate at her saloon!).

Agree! I recently rewatched the first Angels season and of course I remembered the prison episode, which is very dark but presented in the style of the show (although early enough that it was close to exploitation before they settled fully on the tone of the show). But I forgot about the one just a few episodes later was about pornography. It has more grit than people remember!

In the Classic GH thread we had a long discussion about Bobbie, Luke, and Ruby, which @te. ’s comments about Miss Kitty made me think of. Back then they didn’t really address Bobbie being trafficked by Ruby. Bobbie would sometimes allude to Ruby’s part in her past as a sex worker/exploited child, but never in a way that would have made it seem like she would turn her back on Ruby or Luke. Ruby was always the safe place for Bobbie when her life would blow up.

Charlie’s Angels Turns 50: Celebrating 50 Years of Our Favorite Angels

Locher Room video with some fans.