15 minutes ago, Vee said:

I think the show, though very flawed and volatile with some really terrible stories and much degraded daily writing, was fun and had a lot of strengths for most of 2012 through to late spring 2013. Even after the OLTLers returned there was still some good fun for awhile (though the Pickle Lila stuff on The Chew which ends in virtually the entire onscreen cast contracting violent diarrhea is possibly the worst episode of GH I have ever seen). They did save the show for a good stretch.

I was so glad they brought the Nurses Ball back. I think it's important it continue. I also think it's important it not be quite so cheap and embarrassing when they do it, and it's been that way for some time, so maybe it can take a brief break lol.

Lesley and Tracy still appear on a recurring basis, and Kimberly seems happy to show up whenever. I will eat my hat if Frank allows VM back on set.

I agree.  I actually think McBain and Todd worked fine, but then they disappeared and it was jarring (though not RC's fault).  Them disappearing without a word was more awkward then them being on then bringing them back as new characters was a mistake in every single case. The Kate/Connie story is also what killed it for me.  

What is the deal with that?  I have heard rumors, but does Fv really hate her?  Can VM be THAT difficult?  She worked on the show for years without much incident or rumors of her being hard to work with.  I can't imagine she's worse than Steve or Ingo.  We can tread water for a bit with Sonny/Nina, but it's very clear Brenda is missing on the canvas.  Throw her son right into the teen scene and call it a day.  

Edited March 17, 20223 yr by carolineg

12 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I agree.  I actually think McBain and Todd worked fine, but then they disappeared and it was jarring (though not RC's fault).

I think they worked out pretty well on the show, though I didn't approve of keeping the fanbases from OLTL on an endless string - I despised McBain on OLTL and was thrilled Natalie was free of him, but I was also able to deal with him in a new context as a cop who had zero respect for Sonny and Jason. That was refreshing. And I was admittedly invested in Todd and Blair from OLTL who Ron consistently had given short shrift, yet he seemed intent on keeping the flame going with them with Kassie DePaiva coming in and out for perpetual recurring stints to tease the romance going hot and cold, which I didn't think was entirely fair to the audience; I also thought that if you were going to move him on to someone else it needed to be with someone different from Blair, as opposed to Carly who came off as a rebound version of the same woman he'd been obsessed with for years, and a rushed affair despite Howarth and Laura's chemistry. (They also had Carly side with Todd against Jason after learning he stole Jason and Sam's baby, and I'm sorry - there is no universe in which that would ever have [!@#$%^&*] happened.)

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I don't think you could ever have those characters back now, especially Todd the rapist. It's too bad, because despite some flaws the experiment worked IMO. But I didn't fault OLTL 2.0 for taking back its property, especially when GH still had Sean Kanan and many other viable new leads that worked in their place (and Kanan and LW were scorching together). But Ron and Frank couldn't handle losing their faves, and that's when things went downhill.

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What is the deal with that?  I have heard rumors, but does FB really hate her?  Can VM be THAT difficult?

I just think Vanessa is a big personality and a very strong presence on the show, and Frank cannot tolerate people he can't control or keep in their place because they don't need the show. IMO that's part of why Genie kept leaving. She would not return without a contract, and he kept wanting to keep her on recurring and play it cheap, and eventually he had to bend. If he can't control a veteran or can't fit them into his conception of the show and what it should focus on, if someone can destabilize that, he considers it a threat. I think Vanessa is the biggest threat possible, because she doesn't need the show and she's a bit flaky or wild and DGAF, lol. But this is at least partially conjecture, and I may be armchair psychoanalyzing a little or a lot.

Edited March 17, 20223 yr by Vee

@Vee

I never realized he did that with Viki tbh.

I toyed with writing fan fic in wwhich the fact that many cases of DID are (unintentionally) created after hypnotic therapy is highlighted. Families have been destroyed from the period where that was practiced as it implanted false memory.

Viki learns about a case and starts doubting her past therapy.

I kinda like to believe that Dorian orchestrated the 1995 story as the ultimate revenge but it seems to rocky.

Vee, for the record, I don't do much write from character as much as I write from theme (eg, all is fair in love/war). I write from purpose and I write to make a point.

 

I have the bible from Restless, AMC, Love is a Many Splendored Thing (Irna did an AMAZING JOB), LOVING, AW, ATWT...

Ma Perkins and a few other radio soaps. I also have Agnes' audition assignment for that show (and her audition scripts).

Point is that all soaps have the theme/purpose I'm talking about. When I come up with fan fic I incorporate it.

Restless was that: we all have the desire to surrender ourselves, physically and emotionally, to another person and we all have the desire to take someone for that purpose.

Restless did that with EACH story until LML.

.

 

PM me and well send you stuff

38 minutes ago, Vee said:

I just think Vanessa is a big personality and a very strong presence on the show, and Frank cannot tolerate people he can't control or keep in their place because they don't need the show. IMO that's part of why Genie kept leaving. She would not return without a contract, and he kept wanting to keep her on recurring and play it cheap, and eventually he had to bend. If he can't control a veteran or can't fit them into his conception of the show and what it should focus on, if someone can destabilize that, he considers it a threat. I think Vanessa is the biggest threat possible, because she doesn't need the show and she's a bit flaky or wild and DGAF, lol. But this is at least partially conjecture, and I may be armchair psychoanalyzing a little or a lot.

Playing devil's advocate on the OLTL cast, I will say I am a GH viewer.  I watched OLTL a bit, but it was never my soap nor was I invested in it.  From that point of view the initial moves RC made with the characters worked okay for me.  Sam/McBain had great chemistry as did Todd/Carly.  I was not upset Todd/Blair weren't together because that wasn't my soap.  So coming from that point of view (which I am not sure how much of the GH audience was), I was fine not having to bring a whole other backstory over.  I didn't want a bunch of characters from another soap to come aboard when there were characters from GH that should have been brought back first.  I think it was fine to at least try to cut most ties OLTL if you are bringing on these characters.  I am watching GH, not a hybrid.  It may sound harsh, but it's always how I felt and I do think paying RH, ME, and whatever they paid KA made me mad because they could have used that on GH vets.  I understand it was a chance to bring in OLTL viewers but I still think it was a mistake. 

Anyway, with Vanessa it seems she does not pursue the show and is used to GH pursuing her-which they should.  Judging by her lack of work for years, it seems she handled her money well and doesn't need to work.   FV may not like her type of personality and she does seem very flakey, but not like a diva really.   I just think she knows her worth.  I can understand her turning GH down if the offer is bad, but I don't think they have approached her at all and MB pimps a Brenda return all the time.

Edited March 17, 20223 yr by carolineg

I have several of McTavish's outlines (all of her 2nd run on AMC).and actually did a good job at explaining how her ideas tied into the theme of the show.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

I think it was fine to at least try to cut most ties OLTL if you are bringing on these characters.  I am watching GH, not a hybrid.  It may sound harsh, but it's always how I felt and I do think paying RH, ME, and whatever they paid KA made me mad because they could have used that on GH vets.  I understand it was a chance to bring in OLTL viewers but I still think it was a mistake. 

Oh, I didn't expect Todd and Blair to be together as a package on GH. But with a supercouple where the guy had been gone like eight years in some torture chamber, only just reunited at the end of the show and it seemed like the HW was grudgingly writing it at times near the end, it was a bit of a kick in the dick. But I know how it goes when people cross over from soaps, I've seen it before. The people who get a contract are going to get new pairings, that's a fact of life. Blair was lucky not to have died in a plane crash like Vicky Hudson. The problem was that Ron wanted to have it both ways on GH; he wanted to perpetually string out the tease of Todd and Blair for the OLTL audience by constantly having her visit or be in Todd's orbit or lose his one romantic rival for her (Ted King's offscreen OLTL character, Tomas), but he didn't want to ever commit to anything long-term. He just kept playing the subplot in the background. And I just didn't think Todd and Carly offered anything different for either of them. Plus, if you stacked it against her and A.J. there's no contest. So if Todd was going to be there it should've been a cleaner break which gave the old fans some sort of payoff and closure, not the constant tease, and it wasn't that because Ron wasn't ready to let go of OLTL. And they never really have, lol!

I also thought it was foul what they did to the Téa fans - killing her baby with Victor Jr. Ron and Frank had already unceremoniously 'killed off' TSJ's Victor near the end of the show, now they had their only child die. Victor II was a crazy bastard but TSJ and FL were hot as hell, and they had their fans. I don't care who it was, it was a shitty thing to do to their fans after killing the guy (who they never got around to resurrecting themselves - OLTL 2.0 had to do it). I was for the GH baby switch revisit which made sense for Todd, but they could've done it without killing Téa's son. That was insult to injury for those fans.

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Anyway, with Vanessa it seems she does not pursue the show and is used to GH pursuing her-which they should.  Judging by her lack of work for years, it seems she handled her money well and doesn't need to work.   FV may not like her type of personality and she does seem very flakey, but not like a diva really.   I just think she knows her worth.

I agree. And I think that is what FV is afraid of. IMO he likes people he can manage and keep in their place, fob them off with promises and then do what he wants. Vanessa was capable of forcing Guza's hand on the Dante storyline in 2010. FV can't control VM, and she is big enough to command her place. That was the drama with Genie, and it's the drama here. The way he runs GH, he can't have that. It's a very poor business decision IMO, but I think it's his worldview. I think if you start bringing major GH giants back with that kind of pull, the days for his favorite actors (not just the OLTLers) and his perspective on GH as a hybrid/ABC Daytime refuge soap are numbered.

Edited March 17, 20223 yr by Vee

9 hours ago, carolineg said:

Having PC and GH do the Nurse's Ball really stilted the way it flowed and the acts got sillier.  

For me, all the magic for the NB left the year PC tied it in with the General Homicide murders.  But, leave it to Lynn Marie Latham to take something that was supposed to bring awareness to AIDS and turn it into a backdrop for a grisly, confusing serial killer tale.

7 hours ago, Vee said:

Oh, I didn't expect Todd and Blair to be together as a package on GH. But with a supercouple where the guy had been gone like eight years in some torture chamber, only just reunited at the end of the show and it seemed like the HW was grudgingly writing it at times near the end, it was a bit of a kick in the dick. But I know how it goes when people cross over from soaps, I've seen it before. The people who get a contract are going to get new pairings, that's a fact of life. Blair was lucky not to have died in a plane crash like Vicky Hudson. The problem was that Ron wanted to have it both ways on GH; he wanted to perpetually string out the tease of Todd and Blair for the OLTL audience by constantly having her visit or be in Todd's orbit or lose his one romantic rival for her (Ted King's offscreen OLTL character, Tomas), but he didn't want to ever commit to anything long-term. He just kept playing the subplot in the background. And I just didn't think Todd and Carly offered anything different for either of them. Plus, if you stacked it against her and A.J. there's no contest. So if Todd was going to be there it should've been a cleaner break which gave the old fans some sort of payoff and closure, not the constant tease, and it wasn't that because Ron wasn't ready to let go of OLTL. And they never really have, lol!

I also thought it was foul what they did to the Téa fans - killing her baby with Victor Jr. Ron and Frank had already unceremoniously 'killed off' TSJ's Victor near the end of the show, now they had their only child die. Victor II was a crazy bastard but TSJ and FL were hot as hell, and they had their fans. I don't care who it was, it was a shitty thing to do to their fans after killing the guy (who they never got around to resurrecting themselves - OLTL 2.0 had to do it). I was for the GH baby switch revisit which made sense for Todd, but they could've done it without killing Téa's son. That was insult to injury for those fans.

I agree. And I think that is what FV is afraid of. IMO he likes people he can manage and keep in their place, fob them off with promises and then do what he wants. Vanessa was capable of forcing Guza's hand on the Dante storyline in 2010. FV can't control VM, and she is big enough to command her place. That was the drama with Genie, and it's the drama here. The way he runs GH, he can't have that. It's a very poor business decision IMO, but I think it's his worldview. I think if you start bringing major GH giants back with that kind of pull, the days for his favorite actors (not just the OLTLers) and his perspective on GH as a hybrid/ABC Daytime refuge soap are numbered.

The whole thing should have waited until the PP situation was worked out because that was a mess that really hurt the show long run with everyone having to play new characters.  That got me more than bringing OLTLers over.  I understand it was nice for OLTL fans to see their characters again, but I don't think it pleased viewers of either show.   I certainly know more than enough about OLTL to follow along when they were on GH and I do think ME and RH did fit well at the beginning.  It just made GH fans resentful characters were being pushed on them and OLTL fans upset endings were being undone without proper care.

Tea's brother Tomas was hinted at being Alcazar, correct?  That would have worked for me.  That was truly a way to connect the two shows together that was natural.

In regards to Vanessa-Frank is a fool. The show has been treading water with Carson for years.  Once this Nina story plays out, bring Brenda back, pair her with Sonny, bring her son along and make him gay or bi, have Brenda work at Deception with Lucy and call it a day.  I think it would be a good time with Sonny and Carly broken up and Jax/Jason gone, so the show isn't forced to tease those two pairings as well.

3 minutes ago, Khan said:

For me, all the magic for the NB left the year PC tied it in with the General Homicide murders.  But, leave it to Lynn Marie Latham to take something that was supposed to bring awareness to AIDS and turn it into a backdrop for a grisly, confusing serial killer tale.

It was difficult for me because I didn't watch PC at all and it was continuous on both shows and very few PC characters had a true connection to AIDS awareness/Stone/Robin.  I think it would have been easier to bring a few relevant characters over to GH for that week and have PC focus on other stories, but I know it was a rare chance for PC to grab ratings.   I also think the more time went by fewer characters knew Stone and Robin was gone, so the emotional gravity of it wasn't the same.   It became a lot of time devoted to promoting actors singing talent and a chance to get Lucy in her underwear at the end.  I was sad when they ended it, but it was not what it was before at all.  

10 hours ago, Vee said:

[!@#$%^&*]! I knew it was at Kelly's for both her and Robin. Damn, I'm good. Anyway, yes, it touched me that he was given that seal of approval from two of the audience's most beloved characters. Didn't last, of course.

The Sean stuff is a bit campy with a drawing-room mystery but it's a fun one-off and true to the spirit of the characters. Reilly's daughter (a Tiktok star, IIRC) is very good but sadly will likely not be back given her fame, so they should recast the Annie role. Sharon Wyatt's voice cameo was touching.

They should've locked down Carly Schroeder as Serena when they had a chance. She kept acting long after she grew up. Now she's in the armed forces. Too late.

I said that too myself yesterday about how they should've gotten Carly Schroeder when they could. I recall she wanted to come back after the Lee tribute. But nope! This show does what it does. 😔

26 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I understand it was nice for OLTL fans to see their characters again, but I don't think it pleased viewers of either show.

Agree.  If Frank and Ron (and ABC) wanted to bring OLTL fans over to GH, why not just hire two or three of the most popular actors from the former show to play newly created roles on the latter one?  I mean, that's kind of what they ended up doing anyway, so....

19 minutes ago, Khan said:

Agree.  If Frank and Ron (and ABC) wanted to bring OLTL fans over to GH, why not just hire two or three of the most popular actors from the former show to play newly created roles on the latter one?  I mean, that's kind of what they ended up doing anyway, so....

I mean, the ones they did create were awful, so I am not sure.  Surprisingly, I thought Kiki was the character with the most potential and she's dead lol.

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

Tea's brother Tomas was hinted at being Alcazar, correct?  That would have worked for me.  That was truly a way to connect the two shows together that was natural.

I don't think Ron knew WTF that whole thing was about. He improvises sometimes and then figures it out later. It was just another way to keep the endless subplot/tease with Todd and Blair going. I don't think there is a feasible way to claim that Lorenzo Alcazar had been living a double life as Tomas Delgado for years, because Téa knew of her estranged brother going back to the years the Alcazars were in power in the underworld and well before. The Alcazars were too visible. I do think, as I've said in the past, that it would've turned out that the Delgados and Alcazars are related genetically, and that Tomas (who spent years as an intelligence agent) may have been doubling as one or both of the Alcazar brothers at times as part of some shady operations. Which is fine.

In regards to Vanessa-Frank is a fool. The show has been treading water with Carson for years.  Once this Nina story plays out, bring Brenda back, pair her with Sonny, bring her son along and make him gay or bi, have Brenda work at Deception with Lucy and call it a day.  I think it would be a good time with Sonny and Carly broken up and Jax/Jason gone, so the show isn't forced to tease those two pairings as well.

Stop copying my paper. 😘

I keeping hoping for the day DAYS does a spectacular flashback episode(s) in honor of a major anniversary. They did so in 1986 (for their 21st) and 1990 (25th). They also did one in 2000 for their 35th, but only featured current castmembers. In the '86 and '90 shows (1990 was actually 3 episodes), they showcased actors and characters no longer on the show, and in some cases even featured characters that were now being played by different actors! 

Hoping for something like that for their 60th. Otherwise, I liked their 3 primetime specials in '92, '93, and '94. 

Oh, and those standalone Rafe and Aiden episodes in 2016 were awesome! 

(J/K. Total fast-forward material. Hope's standalone was decent though). 

 

Edited March 17, 20223 yr by Gray Bunny

21 minutes ago, Vee said:

I don't think Ron knew WTF that whole thing was about. He improvises sometimes and then figures it out later. It was just another way to keep the endless subplot/tease with Todd and Blair going. I don't think there is a feasible way to claim that Lorenzo Alcazar had been living a double life as Tomas Delgado for years, because Téa knew of her estranged brother going back to the years the Alcazars were in power in the underworld and well before. The Alcazars were too visible. I do think, as I've said in the past, that it would've turned out that the Delgados and Alcazars are related genetically, and that Tomas (who spent years as an intelligence agent) may have been doubling as one or both of the Alcazar brothers at times as part of some shady operations. Which is fine.

Is there no way he could have been a presumed dead Luis who lost his memory or was deep undercover?  Or a third Alcazar lookalike?  Luis/Lorenzo weren't brothers IIRC, but cousins.  I know, I KNOW.

21 minutes ago, Vee said:

Stop copying my paper. 😘

Great minds😍.  Call us Frank!! lol

7 minutes ago, Gray Bunny said:

Hoping for something like that for their 60th. Otherwise, I liked their 3 primetime specials in '92, '93, and '94. 

I loved those primetime episodes.  The best was Night Sins were Sami caught John/Marlena and Carrie got a face full of acid.

1 minute ago, carolineg said:

Is there no way he could have been a presumed dead Luis who lost his memory or was deep undercover?  Or a third Alcazar lookalike?  Luis/Lorenzo weren't brothers IIRC, but cousins.  I know, I KNOW.

What, really? I thought they were brothers.

And no, I seriously doubt it. Luis was active, high profile and in charge of his organization for years when Tomas was known to be operating in intelligence, and before that he was with the Delgado family as a young man. I think it's likely Tomas posed as Luis and/or Lorenzo as part of some sort of covert operations at one point, but I don't think there was a feasible way to claim Tomas and either one of them were actually one and the same all along.