18 hours ago, Khan said:

Thanks for posting that, @DaytimeFan!

I could be wrong, of course, but I suspect Lansbury butted heads more with Moessinger than she did with Peter S. Fischer.  Say what you will about the first seven seasons of MSW - especially in the last two seasons when, to quote Fischer, Cabot Cove was getting too cute for its' own good - but they did retain a "literary quality" that Moessinger's lone year as showrunner lacked (J. Michael Straczynski's scripts notwithstanding).  Which isn't to say that S8 was a terrible year!  Moessinger and his team certainly broadened Jessica's world and put the show back in the Top 10.  But whenever I watch reruns from that particular season, I often feel like I'm watching a Dean Hargrove-produced series (like "Matlock" or "Diagnosis: Murder") rather than classic MSW.

In general, the period between 1990/91 to 1992/3 is a weird transition period for most of tv.

Murder She Wrote went in a more procedural/gritty direction in the early 90s before settling into that mid 90s minimalist vibe (where the guest stars were no longer Hollywood Starlets.. but mostly unknowns)

I think season 8 was a transition season and the tone just didn't fit with the more 80s comfort vibe.  Personally I understood why Jessica would have more then one residence... but I would have had her in LA instead of NYC since her books were starting to be adapted to movies/tv... and East Coast Jessica in West Coast Hollywood would have been an interesting element to explore.

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

Personally I understood why Jessica would have more then one residence... but I would have had her in LA instead of NYC since her books were starting to be adapted to movies/tv... 

That's an interesting idea, @Soaplovers, but I think the show's overall tone would have changed even more than it actually did when she acquired the NYC apartment.  Sort of like when "Diagnosis: Murder" shifted locales (from Denver to L.A.) between seasons with no on-screen explanation.  When they moved to L.A., the show itself became campier and harder to believe.

5 minutes ago, Khan said:

That's an interesting idea, @Soaplovers, but I think the show's overall tone would have changed even more than it actually did when she acquired the NYC apartment.  Sort of like when "Diagnosis: Murder" shifted locales (from Denver to L.A.) between seasons with no on-screen explanation.  When they moved to L.A., the show itself became campier and harder to believe.

No harder to believe then Cabot Cove being the murder capital of New England.. and people still opted to visit or move there LOL 

39 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

No harder to believe then Cabot Cove being the murder capital of New England.. and people still opted to visit or move there LOL 

I always love how townspeople like Seth complain about tourists and newcomers "invading" CC.  It's like, "Well, maybe if you told more outsiders about all the murders that occur in town, they wouldn't be so inclined to visit or move there, lol!"

That downgrading of guest stars was obviously a budget thing.

Were there any MSW episodes that 'broke the mold' eg went against the formula in any way?

Edited April 22, 20241 yr by Paul Raven

7 hours ago, Khan said:

it's so subtle that it's almost hard to tell when she had her, um, face refreshed, lol?  Whoever she paid to do the job was a true artist.

Angela Lansbury was 59 in 1984 and 71 in 1996.

I would guess by the time of Murder, She Wrote, she must have cut down/quit smoking and was more vigilant about sun protection.

Whatever work she had done during Murder, She Wrote was not blatantly obvious and in your face.

21 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Did Angela's 'face refresh' coincide with the NY move?

No, Angela had refreshed herself several times before Jessica got her NY apartment. 

10 hours ago, Khan said:

To tell you the truth, @Paul Raven, it's so subtle that it's almost hard to tell when she had her, um, face refreshed, lol?  Whoever she paid to do the job was a true artist.

Angela had her facelift a lot earlier than people think. She had her first facelift when she debuted as Mame on Broadway in 1966. She had her lower eyes done a few years later to rid herself of under eye bags. 

She then had her neck and chin tightened up in the late 1970s before having another neck tuneup in 1986. Angela had another facelift in the early 90s. 

She was really something of a pioneer in very good, conservative work. 

10 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

I think it also helps when you take care of yourself, have a good diet, and exercise regularly. Angela took great pride in maintaining her overall health - so any cosmetic enfacements probably looked more complementary vs. most people. 

Yes, indeed. When she lost 20 lbs it inspired her to launch Positive Moves...

10 hours ago, Khan said:

Angela really took herself as a potential role model for women, especially older women, very seriously. 

3 hours ago, kalbir said:

Angela Lansbury was 59 in 1984 and 71 in 1996.

I would guess by the time of Murder, She Wrote, she must have cut down/quit smoking and was more vigilant about sun protection.

Whatever work she had done during Murder, She Wrote was not blatantly obvious and in your face.

Angela was mostly preoccupied with her jawline and any perceived jowls. It's somewhat hard to screw up a lower face lift except if the pull is too tight around the mouth. Angela left her lines alone, so she never strove to look 'young' she strove to look 'good' and she looked great as a result.

Angela Lansbury's wardrobe was an inspiration for ladies of a certain age -- and even in the repeats 3 decades later, her style has translated well because she stuck with the classics. Aquascutum tweed/houdstooth blazers (which Talbots would copy for her fanbase at the time), pencil skirts, a sensible heel, silk patterned scarves, beautiful gold broaches and earrings. She knew what would look good but wouldn't detract from the story. 

My mom noticed something years ago on MSW which was, in addition to her conservative, judicious face-lift, Lansbury also utilized a 'veil' or special filter in her close-ups in the early seasons of the show. It is not so apparent in the later New York seasons, but the fuzzier filter was noticeable in many episodes when the show would cut from her close-up to another person's close-up. I think some of the special guest stars who had been female movie stars in the 1950s (like Celeste Holm, for example) also utilized the 'veil' when they appeared on the show.

Edited April 23, 20241 yr by Cat

On 4/22/2024 at 6:31 PM, Paul Raven said:

Were there any MSW episodes that 'broke the mold' eg went against the formula in any way?

Definitely!  I probably should list them all in a spoiler tag, though, lol.  Bookend and two-hour episodes notwithstanding...

 

Episode 1.19 ("Murder Takes the Bus") has the rare distinction (for any mystery show, I think) of being an episode where the killer murders the victim one way to cover up the other way they murdered them.  You have to see that one to believe it, lol!

Episode 1.22 ("Funeral at Fifty-Mile") has one victim, but, as it turns out, multiple culprits.

Episode 2.10 ("Sticks and Stones") reveals a semi-recurring character (won't say whom!) as the culprit, with one murder having been committed before the episode's start.

Episode 2.13 ("Trial by Error") finds Jessica serving as jury foreperson.  The jury ends up exonerating the defendant, but are they truly innocent? 

Episode 2.20 ("Menace, Anyone?") is perhaps the strangest episode in MSW history.  The investigating detective is murdered halfway through, leaving it up to his partner (and, of course, Jessica) to finish the investigation; and rather than have the killer confess to Jessica and the detective, it's left up to another character to confess for them (with the flimsiest-sounding excuse that suggests to me that the actual confession scene was tossed and what ended up on air was a reshoot).

Episode 3.3 ("Unfinished Business")...well...let's just say there's a reason why retiring police detective Barney Kale's one, unsolved case that he's determined to solve now has been unsolved all this time.

Episode 3.8 ("Magnum on Ice") is part two of a crossover with "Magnum, P.I.," picking up where the "Magnum" episode left off.

Episode 3.12 ("The Corpse Flew First Class") features two crimes - a murder and a theft - that occur on the same flight to London.  The crimes appear to be connected, but are they? 

Episode 3.13 ("Crossed Up") has Jessica confined to her bed for the duration, due to a muscle sprain or some such.  Sort of an homage to "Sorry, Wrong Number."

Episode 3.14 ("Murder in a Minor Key") ended up being a sort of test run for the bookend episodes, with Jessica narrating her latest novel to the folks at home.

Episode 3.21 ("The Days Dwindle Down") is a quasi-sequel to the 1949 film noir "Strange Bargain."  Jeffrey Lynn, Harry Morgan and Martha Scott all reprised their roles from the movie, but the original film's ending was changed in order to service the MSW plot.

Episode 4.5 ("The Way to Dusty Death"), an obvious homage to "MacBeth," includes a married couple who essentially get away with attempted murder.

Episode 4.6 ("It Runs in the Family") does not feature Jessica at all.  Instead, it's up to her identical British cousin, Emma McGill, also played by Lansbury, to get to the bottom of things.

Episode 4.9 ("Trouble in Eden") has Jessica going undercover as a madam.  (Yep, you read that right, lol.)

Episode 4.19 ("Just Another Fish Story") has a culprit who would become a semi-recurring character.  (Although, I really wish they hadn't, lol).

Episode 5.1 ("J.B. as in Jailbird") is pretty self-explanatory - but, basically, she has to solve the mystery from behind bars.

Episodes 5.7 ("The Last Flight of the Dixie Damsel") and 5.8 ("Prediction: Murder") both feature an uncredited Dale Robertson as Frank Fletcher's old military buddy, Lee Goddard; aside from his appearances, however, the plots are unrelated.

Episode 5.15 ("Alma Murder") begins with the actual murder - or, rather, its' immediate aftermath, with one character doing their best to clean up the crime scene before the police arrive.  Jessica is brought into the investigation only after the fact.  (And no, it's not an open-ended mystery either).

Episode 5.16 ("Truck Stop") features an extended flashback sequence, narrated by Jessica's friend in a recording they made before their death, with music and cinematography very reminiscent of 1940's melodramas.

Episode 6.4 ("The Error of Her Ways") begins the way most other MSW episodes end, with Jessica and the investigating detective confronting the culprit.  Marian Randall gives the performance of her life, however, as she screams to the heavens above that she did not murder her husband, Clark.  Then, Marian herself turns up dead, and that's when things get REALLY interesting, lol.

Episode 7.1 ("Trials and Tribulations") begins with a car chase (a rare occurrence for non-violent MSW) and ends with a very unexpected twist.  (Episode 8.17 ("To the Last Will I Grapple With Thee") ends in a similar, but (IMO) more ingenious fashion).

Episode 7.4 ("Hannigan's Wake") is an episode centered around a murder that occurred many years before, and features (IMO) one of the most devastating conclusions in their entire run.

Episode 7.7 ("The Return of Preston Giles") is hard to talk about without giving away some of the plot, but it's the first time Jessica encounters someone she helped put away in an earlier episode (in the series pilot, to be more specific) and it's also the only incidence I can think of offhand where Jessica herself does not explain "how they did it" and why.

Episode 7.14 ("Who Killed J.B. Fletcher?") has Jessica, with help from members of a local chapter of her fan club, solve not one, not two, but THREE related murders.  (I'm not sure, but I think that was a record for the show, lol.)

Episode 7.21 ("Tainted Lady") is, in many respects, a standard MSW episode, but the twist here is that the main suspect is a woman whom Jessica had cleared years before in another, unrelated murder investigation.

Episode 8.13 ("Incident in Lot 7") would be a routine "J.B. in La La Land" episode, except that it includes several references to the movie "Psycho," including a cameo from "Alfred Hitchcock" himself.

Episode 9.9 ("A Christmas Secret") includes a victim who, for the first and only time in MSW history, survives their attack.  (Ah, the magic of Christmas, lol).

Episode 9.13 ("Dead Eye") involves the real-life JFK assassination, although they're very careful not to rewrite history or offer baseless theories.

Episode 9.15 ("The Petrified Florist") has a twist ending that's either really clever or a total cheat, depending on how one looks at it.

Episodes 11.17 ("Murder a la Mode") and 11.19 ("School for Murder") do away with the "Tonight on 'Murder, She Wrote'..." and give us cold opens instead.

Edited April 24, 20241 yr by Khan

@Khan thanks for that, very interesting!

55 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

@Khan thanks for that, very interesting!

No problem! 

As you can see, the majority of atypical episodes happened during the Peter S. Fischer era (1984-1991).  Once he departed as showrunner, and especially after Lansbury took over production in '92, MSW became more risk-averse.

4 hours ago, Khan said:

No problem! 

As you can see, the majority of atypical episodes happened during the Peter S. Fischer era (1984-1991).  Once he departed as showrunner, and especially after Lansbury took over production in '92, MSW became more risk-averse.

Two of the season 9 episodes you mentioned... I remember my late mom raving about both of them for being different.  She much preferred the one you mentioned had the twist ending (she was in the camp that liked the clever twist)

On 4/22/2024 at 1:03 PM, Soaplovers said:

In general, the period between 1990/91 to 1992/3 is a weird transition period for most of tv.

1980s hangover, plus a good number of the big 1980s hit shows were winding down.

1993/94 I think was the season that the 1990s really began on primetime: peak Beverly Hills 90210, Melrose Place took off, peak Home Improvement, Seinfeld blew up, NYPD Blue premiered. Then of course the following season ER and Friends premiered and we know the rest.

By Fall 1993, the only dramas premiering in the 1980s that were still on were Murder, She Wrote; L.A. Law, Matlock, In the Heat of the Night. L.A. Law and In the Heat of the Night ended Spring 1994, Matlock ended Spring 1995, and Murder, She Wrote ended Spring 1996.

Murder, She Wrote was bookended by two very different eras in primetime dramas. It started in the Dallas/Dynasty era and ended in the ER/NYPD Blue era. Murder, She Wrote may not have been as cool and trendy as Miami Vice, Moonlighting, and L.A. Law but Murder, She Wrote out-rated and outlasted them.

 

 

Angela Lansbury's brother Edgar has passed at age 94.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/arts/edgar-lansbury-dead-subject-roses-angela-1235890334/

11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Angela Lansbury's brother Edgar has passed at age 94.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/arts/edgar-lansbury-dead-subject-roses-angela-1235890334/

I'm very sorry to hear that.  Edgar was highly respected w/in the theatre industry, and he had extraordinary tastes.

His son, David, appeared in at least three episodes of MSW: "Moving Violation" (season 7, episode 13), "Murder on Madison Avenue" (season 8, episode 22) and "Threshold of Fear" (season 9, episode 16).

Thanks, @DRW50, for sharing the news.