http://youtu.be/KrmHRo7yRu4

Well, at least the promos seem to have improved.

...yawn....

I'm sorry, promo, you were saying?

Well, at least the promos seem to have improved.

True. But I think you could also read between the old lines and see how hard they have to work just make the stories seem palatable. (Whatever CBS is paying that department, it ain't nearly enough.)

Remember how good the CBS promos were back then

This is surprisingly good considering some of the recent crap.

Still, when they say "explosive," all I think of following it with is... "diarrhea?"

True. But I think you could also read between the old lines and see how hard they have to work just make the stories seem palatable. (Whatever CBS is paying that department, it ain't nearly enough.)

Bingo! Unlike B&B where there's actually stuff happening, the current stories are so pathetic. Let's see if the changes with Phyllis waking up, Shemar's cameo and the return of Ashley.

Ray Wise loitering around town some more. I can't believe they wasted this legend.

They did Ray Wise long.

Also, I can see a 'murder mystery' coming from a mile away.

Which is a shame, I guess, because Victor needs a more worthy adversary than Cliff Abbott.

Jack USED to be a formidable opponent for Victor, what changed?

For one thing, Y&R moved away (for the most part) from stories involving corporate intrigue. Remember how bangin' Y&R used to be with the Jabot/Newman wars? IMO, Bill Bell recognized early on that Peter Bergman was no Terry Lester. Ergo, he transitioned Jack from being the playboy of yesteryear to a relatively more solid -- and more formidable -- businessman. Someone who COULD hold his own against EB's Victor; and -- again, IMO -- that's where Bergman excelled and where he earned those 120 Emmys he racked up during the '90's. But now, those days seem to be over, no one at the show appears to be all that invested in revitalizing the corporate angle, and all Bergman has left to do is play de facto Abbott family patriarch and past-his-prime romantic hero and it's all just a hopeless, toothless, vanilla mess.

Again, that's just my opinion.

For one thing, Y&R moved away (for the most part) from stories involving corporate intrigue. Remember how bangin' Y&R used to be with the Jabot/Newman wars? IMO, Bill Bell recognized early on that Peter Bergman was no Terry Lester. Ergo, he transitioned Jack from being the playboy of yesteryear to a relatively more solid -- and more formidable -- businessman. Someone who COULD hold his own against EB's Victor; and -- again, IMO -- that's where Bergman excelled and where he earned those 120 Emmys he racked up during the '90's. But now, those days seem to be over, no one at the show appears to be all that invested in revitalizing the corporate angle, and all Bergman has left to do is play de facto Abbott family patriarch and past-his-prime romantic hero and it's all just a hopeless, toothless, vanilla mess.

Again, that's just my opinion.

What's ironic though is that I thought it seemed like Victor just became more unstoppable when Bergman was cast.....maybe it's just my opinion but I figured that Lester's Jack was able to hold his own against Victor better.....Maybe I'm thinking of more to terms with business schemes which seemed to always blow up in Bergman's Jack's face (especially in recent years) against Victor, but Lester's Jack did loose Jabot to Newman. It's sort of hard to judge cause there aren't that many scenes with Lester's Jack especially with Victor and it just seems like the 80's didn't have as much business stories compared to when the show went to number 1 around the time that Bergman showed up.

Lester's Jack was a more well rounded character than Bergman's Jack.

Lester's Jack was everything (lover, businessman, cad) at once & was a character who could & did stand on his own (some of Lester's most popular stories had little to do with Victor or The Newmans).

Bergman's Jack (after a year & a half of imitating TL's Jack) simply filled whatever role was needed for stories (mainly being Cliff Barnes to Victor's JR Ewing).

I probably misspoke when I said PB's Jack was a more formidable businessman than TL's. The truth is, like YRFan, I don't believe we had enough time with Lester's Jack in the corporate sphere w/ Victor to say with real certainty whether he was more or less formidable than Bergman's; and frankly, I have always been of the opinion that Lester, as an actor, could do no wrong. You name it -- salacious playboy, demanding business tycoon, stalwart patriarch -- and I think Lester could have done it and done it well. It's a shame he left before the really good stuff between Jack and Victor -- the corporate stuff, as well as the original Nikki/Victor/Jack triangle -- kicked into gear, but I do think that Bergman, despite his deficiencies as a performer, did well with that stuff, because Bell and his team wrote it to his strengths, something the current writers just aren't doing.

Nevertheless, the minute I saw drug-addled Jack passed out on the couch with that dead, bloated Stephanie beside him on the floor, I think I was pretty much "done" with Jack Abbott, regardless of the actor.

Lester's Jack was a more well rounded character than Bergman's Jack.

Lester's Jack was everything (lover, businessman, cad) at once & was a character who could & did stand on his own (some of Lester's most popular stories had little to do with Victor or The Newmans).

Bergman's Jack (after a year & a half of imitating TL's Jack) simply filled whatever role was needed for stories (mainly being Cliff Barnes to Victor's JR Ewing).

Exactly.