Empire: Discussion Thread

[KMan101]

I admit I haven't see this week's yet (shameful! I know!), but Skin isn't wrong in that Andre has been, overall, ignored. He has been. Yes we have enough of an idea about his character (and it sounds like even more is coming, thankfully), but there should been no questioned he was under-developed earlier.

And while we do see his isolation, I still think they could have done a better job with him and Rhonda in the beginning, but it is what it is and I still love the show more than anything, lol

Edited February 28, 2015 by KMan101

[MoTheGreat]

This writing is so lopsided when it comes to flashing out Hakeem & Andre. It reminds me of writers who just write for white characters, they get all the juicy storyline & flashing out.

I believe Danny Strong is gay too. I believe that's why Jamal get better writing then Hakeem & Andre.

Wednesday Episode I wanted Hakeem to say, She trying to control me when I don't know her like that. Or something about her not being there when he needed her the most.

[Skin]

This is pretty much all I was saying with my post.

This show is interesting in that it has a central antagonist that pretty much exemplifies every deplorable thing in today's society in all communities. Luscious is a disgusting person in all facets of his life, and only seems to be able to impart ugly and disgusting philosophies to his children, that poisons them adversely through society. He harms them internally and also forces them to see the world through a fragmented and toxic lens.

Cookie for all she is worth is 10 times the parent Luscious could ever dream of being and it's not a surprise that the further the characters are from her, the less human and sympathetic they seem to become within the shows narrative. It's no surprise that the most lovable character is Jamal, who is for all intensive purposes the mother's son and the son she is most connected to.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Skin

[All My Shadows]

Just realizing that we are indeed on #8 lol And also apologizing for being a condescending ass.

[MoTheGreat]

I don't think Jamal is more lovable because his closeness with Cookie. I dislike Cookie because she acts like Jamal is the only child she got. Is she forgetting that she left baby Hakeem. Hakeem don't know her & what he knows about her, is her bossy ways. I wouldn't be surprise if Hakeem mommy issues go deeper then Camilla.

I know I didn't like Jamal the saint when he punch Hakeem for no reason. I'm still confuse of why people was cheering, when Hakeem have been nothing but supportive of Jamal issues. & it was Hakeem who reach out to Jamal. It was Hakeem who came to Jamal apartment to say how proud he is of him.

Edited February 28, 2015 by MoTheGreat

[YRBB]

My God. You are letting your hatred run rampant... no, it GALLOPS! I can't.

Hakeem hasn't been focused on? Cookie acts like she only has one child? Jamal punched him for no reason? Dear God! Are we even watching the same show?

If you don't understand why people were cheering, maybe you should consider the fact that--GASP--you just may be wrong. Just a thought.

I can't. I just...

[YRBB]

The EW article features a lot of tantalizing bits about the rest of the season, including

If I'd know it would be so spoilery, I wouldn't have read it, but anyways....

It has also been greenlit for 13 episodes in season 2, with the option for nine more, potentially making it a full, 22-episode order.

[Vee]

I don't agree that they were shortchanged. I think the wait was a deliberate choice and I think they have been focusing in on Hakeem more and more all along, to the point that he's become a very sympathetic, rootable character despite his issues. They took their time to work on him and now they're taking their time to work on Andre too. They introduced most of the characters as broad sketches, and then fleshed them out and showed them all to be more than what they appeared to be. Andre is not just Iago and Hakeem is not just a young punk. They've also begun fleshing out both Rhonda and Vernon.

Upcoming episode press releases, with some spoilage.

I think greenlighting the show for a back 9 would be a mistake unless they know exactly what they're doing and how to pace it out. Doing 12-13 has kept them pretty tight. Frankly, most network primetime dramas today have no idea how to sustain 22 episodes, let alone the 29-30 the Spelling soaps used to do. [!@#$%^&*] just drags out and becomes foolishly episodic.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Vee

[YRBB]

IA! Perhaps it would be best to keep it at a much more manageable 13. Then again, having 22 episodes might help them solve some of the too-fast elements of the show, to sort of steady the pacing. Unless they keep it all the same but now have 9 extra episodes to do it in, which would probably prove disastrous.

SO much hinders on how season 2 does. I really, really hope it doesn't tank.

Edited February 28, 2015 by YRBB

[ReddFoxx]

It's a matter of quality over quantity. I think shows can do a lot better with 12-13 episodes, instead of 22. Leaving the viewers wanting more can be good.

[marceline]

I think 22 episodes can be every bit as satisfying as 13. As I said above, there were plenty of things in this episode alone that could've been a full episode on their own. I hope that S2 has a few more episodes to it. Preferably 15-18 so we don't end up with situations like Raven Symone showing up for a full minute then disappearing. I consider that a serious misstep.

[All My Shadows]

I agree with this. This season definitely feels like TPTB knew exactly what they were doing and where they were going to end up at the end of the season. If S2 is plotted with the same deliberate purpose, then I think we're good to go. In a world now filled with 10 or 13-episode seasons, I'd love to see a drama series fully utilize the old 22-episode model and make it work. Or better yet, let's get Melrose and do 32 episodes. If there are beats to be played, and the writers know how to make each one as satisfying as the last, then they're golden.

Edited February 28, 2015 by All My Shadows

[Skin]

I don't like that. They should have just gave them a solid order. Adding more episodes could lead to a decline in quality. I wonder why Fox is only committing to 12 episodes, when it's clearly their biggest hit. Is because the cast doesn't want to commit to more than 12 episodes a season, Like How To Get Away With Murder?

Yeah, there are clear pacing issues within the show.

[NothinButAttitude]

I'd rather them stick to 13-15 episodes. 22 episodes are too much and I agree that it can affect the show. I don't want the show to be watered down season two b/c there are too many episodes and they are just trying to fill them in. That's one thing I can agree with HTGAWM. I'm glad that Viola has it in her contract to only do 13-15 episodes a season so with her being the star, they are only going to do that many episodes. It keeps the show's plots tight and ratings steady. Fans nowadays start to lose interest if it is too many episodes to watch.

[Eric83]

Thought they'd have a solid 15/16 episode order. They're definitely getting the back nine so I guess we're in for a 22 episode season.

The description for the rest of the season has my mouth watering! I can't wait!