Oh for the love of God, not this again.

It's actually extremely simple. I was upset at the cancellations because cancelling them was touted as the best/only option for them. No major attempts to rejuvenate the shows took place, despite what that random ABC employee wrote in that insulting internet message, and ABC gave up on their own product without thinking critically about ways to help them regain relevance. ABC had that power. No matter who the EP was or HW was or ANY OTHER PERSON was, ABC had the power to put in charge people who could inject something new and lively into both shows, but they played the same old tired, uninformed cards over and over again until they gave up and cancelled them.

Then PP came along and did the things that ABC could have and should have done (with a bigger budget and more publicity, mind you).

Not to be rude, but I feel like I answered this in 2012 and in 2013.

Not to be rude, but I feel like I answered this in 2012 and in 2013.

You did, Carl. We all did. Time and time again.

Look, I didn't like what little I saw of the PP reboots, but I must be some kind of natural born fool to want these shows back on ABC after everything they did (and did not do) to get them cancelled the FIRST time around. And that's all I have to say about that.

Yes, because this question has always been ignored whenever I posed it in one of the existing threads.

I'm sorry, but I think it is a logical inconsistency for some to be upset at ABC for cancelling AMC and OLTL and then hoping (years later) that these shows never come back to ABC because they were so bad (as compared to Prospect Park).

Don't be sorry. It's an emotional reaction, therefore logic need not apply. And it's not necessary that you understand it and no one has to justify it to you.

I'm not exactly sure who you are addressing this to because, frankly, it feels a little passive-aggressive but I'll bite.

I wasn't outraged over the cancellation. Disappointed? Yes but not outraged. If you look back at that time, the ratings threads were basically a weekly thunderdome pitting AMC against OLTL for which show was more likely to die first. Personally, I had already quit watching AMC for about six months but I came back for the birth of the Hubbard baby and that's when the shows got cancelled. If AMC hadn't been cancelled, I probably would've quit watching once the Hubbards' story ran its course.

As for PP, yes I do feel like they gave me a superior product and that's why I don't want the show to return to ABC. I have things that I want from a soap: meaningful diversity, layered female characters with jobs who know about and use contraception, a couple of scenes that pass the Bechtel Test every now and then, social issue stories, more drama and less "soapy goodness", etc… PP gave me all of that and more. After that, why would I want to go back to a version of the show with alpha dogs and concubines; rich, skinny, white bimbos getting knocked up at the drop of a hat, and people coming back from the dead every fifteen minutes?

People were upset with the cancellations because as long as the shows were on the air there was a chance they could get better and because even as awful as they might've been there were still things to like/love. What's so confusing?

Also one of the main reasons some of us want to keep the shows from ABC is because we know that if The Mouse gets the rights back, Cartini will waste no time putting their noxious "stamp" on the characters and stories. Don't underestimate how much some of us (okay, just me) desperately wants to make sure that RC and FV never get the chance to touch these shows again

I'm not running them for pageant queen, Max, and what you're saying isn't relevant to what I was talking about. I think the execs behind PP are lousy, I always have. I only care about the shows they put out with the production staff they hired. Those EPs, those casts, those crews - independent of the management, they put out a very good show for both AMC and OLTL IMO. That's all that mattered to me.

As for which execs are worse, PP or ABC, they both lied to the public, their casts, their crews, they both have a multitude of sins - so who [!@#$%^&*] cares?

You got your answer: People loved these shows, they hated how ABC treated them over the last few decades, they wanted something better. They didn't want them cancelled, they wanted them helped. They didn't care who did it. I still don't care who chooses to value the programs, whether it's ABC, PP or someone else. And for my time I got a good show again for both AMC and OLTL, so I was happy for it, brief though it was.

You've been grappling with your "confusion" as to why people who watch ABC soaps felt like their shows should be saved when yours wasn't for at least the last four years, Max. Maybe you should consider letting it go, or just acknowledging what everyone else already knows - that you deeply resent the way we feel about our shows and that we got what you didn't.

DITTO!!!!

It's actually extremely simple. I was upset at the cancellations because cancelling them was touted as the best/only option for them. No major attempts to rejuvenate the shows took place, despite what that random ABC employee wrote in that insulting internet message, and ABC gave up on their own product without thinking critically about ways to help them regain relevance. ABC had that power. No matter who the EP was or HW was or ANY OTHER PERSON was, ABC had the power to put in charge people who could inject something new and lively into both shows, but they played the same old tired, uninformed cards over and over again until they gave up and cancelled them.

I feel that ABC gave up on OLTL and left it for dead, but the network seemed plenty invested in AMC. That's why the show was moved to LA and made HD compatible. In terms of storyline quality, the right improvements weren't made, but that's not because Frons & company didn't care. Rather, they just had the wrong ideas (and deluded themselves into thinking otherwise).

Then PP came along and did the things that ABC could have and should have done (with a bigger budget and more publicity, mind you).

PP did a good job writing for the AMC veterans, but I feel that PP also made some bad calls with AMC such as jumping five years into the future and introducing too many new, youthful cast members. So I don't concur with the popular opinion that PP treated the shows the way ABC should have. (PP treated OLTL better than it treated AMC, but OLTL still suffered from erratic scheduling and a poor budget.)

Not to be rude, but I feel like I answered this in 2012 and in 2013.

You did, Carl. We all did. Time and time again.

I understand that the discussion of these cancellations is a sore spot, especially coming from me.

A lot has been said about these cancellations, but I never previously understood why somebody would be upset at ABC for cancelling them while at the same time believing that the PP versions were so superior. After reading these responses, I think I now realize why people wanted these soaps on ABC (back in 2011, before they saw the PP reboots), but now don't want ABC anywhere near these soaps.

Don't be sorry. It's an emotional reaction, therefore logic need not apply. And it's not necessary that you understand it and no one has to justify it to you.

This makes a lot of sense, Rhinohide. Reactions to soap cancellations differ among people, so I can't expect everyone to follow my thinking that "if the show's good, you should be upset at the cancellation, but if it sucks, you should be relieved." (As in my case, I enjoyed AW at the time, so I was livid over its cancellation, but felt the exact opposite about GL because I thought it was terrible.)

Edited March 29, 201411 yr by Max

PP did AMC & OLTL for 80,000-100,000 an eppy. Thats more than half what ABC was spending. The shows IMO looked awesome.

The issue I feel PP had is that they didnt have enough capital to run both shows (They were given 25 Mil) and they should have started smaller and then added more when successful

I do believe PP wanted this a success and tried all they could, however, they should have been honest about this all the time to their casts and crews. I feel if they had this latest suspenion may have been better recieved by some of the cast & crew then it was.

Better communication was NEEDED

Edited March 29, 201411 yr by John

A lot has been said about these cancellations, but I never previously understood why somebody would be upset at ABC for cancelling them while at the same time believing that the PP versions were so superior. I think I now realize why people wanted these soaps on ABC (back in 2011, before they saw the PP reboots), but now don't want ABC anywhere near these soaps.

I can accept that you are incapable of understanding this position. No matter how many times it's been explained to you in detail. Perhaps the time has come for you to accept your limitations as well.

I can accept that you are incapable of understanding this position. No matter how many times it's been explained to you in detail. Perhaps the time has come for you to accept your limitations as well.

I'll be the first to admit that I have plenty of limitations.

Prior to this thread, I just don't recall reading a sufficient explanation for what appears to be a contradiction (being angry at ABC for the cancellations yet not wanting these shows to come back to ABC). If somebody previously did explain this contradiction to me, then I neither recall it nor understood it prior to today. I wouldn't have created this thread otherwise, even though there is at least one person who feels differently.

I feel that ABC gave up on OLTL and left it for dead, but the network seemed plenty invested in AMC. That's why the show was moved to LA and made HD compatible. In terms of storyline quality, the right improvements weren't made, but that's not because Frons & company didn't care. Rather, they just had the wrong ideas (and deluded themselves into thinking otherwise).

PP did a good job writing for the AMC veterans, but I feel that PP also made some bad calls with AMC such as jumping five years into the future and introducing too many new, youthful cast members. So I don't concur with the popular opinion that PP treated the shows the way ABC should have. (PP treated OLTL better than it treated AMC, but OLTL still suffered from erratic scheduling and a poor budget.)

Every last one of these things is debatable. If you choose to take your own "feelings" about these things as gospel, then you'll never really understand our reactions towards the entire sequence of events. I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure there are others who will agree. Moving AMC to LA and going HD wasn't a serious attempt to make the show more accessible and/or relevant. ABC did not make restoring the soaps, their very own productions, a priority. The time-jump wasn't a major problem, and the younger characters, especially the two young leads, weren't a problem.

Every last one of these things is debatable. If you choose to take your own "feelings" about these things as gospel, then you'll never really understand our reactions towards the entire sequence of events. I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure there are others who will agree. Moving AMC to LA and going HD wasn't a serious attempt to make the show more accessible and/or relevant. ABC did not make restoring the soaps, their very own productions, a priority. The time-jump wasn't a major problem, and the younger characters, especially the two young leads, weren't a problem.

AMS, I am sorry if I gave the impression that my feelings about these things are gospel. I mentioned my feelings because they shaped my prior inability to understand the question posed by this thread's title. I am guessing that the way I think is far different than most others here.

While the move to LA (and going to HD) ended up doing nothing for AMC, the fact that ABC chose to do this showed major interest on the network's part. ABC wouldn't have thrown so much money away if the original plan was to just cancel AMC in 2011. (And the fact that OLTL got none of this treatment is what led me to conclude that it was doomed.)

Edited March 29, 201411 yr by Max

AMC was moved to LA because it was overbudget and they thought getting it out of NYC, where everything had already begun costing more for production, would cut their costs. There's no other reasoning behind that. That's a fact.

ABC originally wanted to cancel OLTL first - aesthetically, Brian Frons preferred GH and AMC - but AMC continued to be a drag on finances despite the move. Because OLTL was still under budget, this failed strategy left them with egg on their face. Thus, they opted to cancel both rather than change course, because overall ABC believed the day of the soap was done and that cheap variety programming was the future. Frons begged clemency for Bob Guza's GH and got it.

That's all there is to it.

Also, your personal opinions about the shows on PP and their quality are completely irrelevant to the questions you're asking us about ABC and the soaps as they existed in their last 10-15 years on the network. Either you want to ask us questions or you want to tell us why we're wrong by presenting your thesis - pick one.

Edited March 29, 201411 yr by Vee

Okay. I was never the biggest ABC soap person, and didn't invest much in AMC or OLTL much on ABC, or indeed via PP, but it seems obvious to me why people feel this way.

1) ABC spent years tearing these shows to pieces, only to turn around, shrug, and go "Welp! We tried everything and you still won't watch! Too bad!" Shockingly, fans of the show would be displeased with their favourite shows returning to such a venue.

2) PP, for all its flaws, put on a product that was widely considered superior and truer to both shows' original purpose and creative centre than anything ABC had put forward since Clinton's first term. People don't tend to be as attached to behind-the-scenes events as they are to what is on their screens.

End of. It's really that simple (to me).

ETA: I realize I'm probably regurgitating what others have said, but hopefully this is a more concise breakdown to your question that maybe is a little more clear. Your personal feelings about the reboot aside, a good number of people feel the above way about it, and I personally can understand why they do feel that way.

Edited March 29, 201411 yr by beebs

On April 14th, it'll be 3 years since the cancellation announcement. Let it go.

Edited March 29, 201411 yr by Gray Bunny