If you didn't like AMC/OLTL on ABC, then why the outrage over the cancellations?

[Max]

I am sorry if this question offends some, but I am really puzzled when I read comments whereby posters state that they never want to see AMC or OLTL back on ABC. These posts usually state what a superior job Prospect Park has done with these soaps, and also mention that the quality of the Nixon soaps would likely be destroyed if they ever returned to ABC. While I can understand why some would prefer the PP versions to the ABC versions, I can't understand why some of the same folks who were angry at ABC for cancelling AMC/OLTL are now of the opinion that these shows should stay as far away from ABC as possible. Put another way, if you believed that ABC was putting out poor quality versions of AMC and OLTL (which is what I infer whenever I read how much better someone thought the PP versions were), then why would you be outraged at their cancellations? Wouldn't relief be a more fitting reaction? (I was certainly relieved when GL was cancelled, because it was so awful.)

Similarly, I often read complaints stating how bad Cartini's GH is. Yet, I have little doubt that there would be a major outrage if ABC cancelled it. Since the concensus appears to be that the internet versions of soaps are better than the ABC versions (unless I am mistaken), then why not hope for GH to make the transition from ABC to the internet? (Although hopefully GH would wind up in the hands of a company much more stable than PP.)

By the way, I personally prefer network soaps to internet soaps, so I don't want to give the mistaken impression that I am advocating on behalf of internet soaps. However, I started this topic because I am confused as to why those who feel internet soaps are good (and ABC soaps are poor) would be so upset to see a network cancel a soap.

[Nate4]

People love to whine and complain.

[Vee]

Really, Max, a whole new thread?

[allmc2008]

I was angry when ABC canned them because it destroyed any chance of a rejuvenation. Most soaps have had gone through bad periods and good periods either because of HW's or EP's and network Executives. I was perceiving the final years as a very bad period, hoping for a better period to come out of it.

Also, soaps were being replaced during the late 60s/early 70s with cheap gameshows but the 1 hour AW expansion proved soaps are more successful. The Era we were in mirrored that in a sense.

I was angry when ABC canned them because it destroyed any chance of a rejuvenation. Most soaps have had gone through bad periods and good periods either because of HW's or EP's and network Executives. I was perceiving the final years as a very bad period, hoping for a better period to come out of it.

Also, soaps were being replaced during the late 60s/early 70s with cheap gameshows but the 1 hour AW expansion proved soaps are more successful. The Era we were in mirrored that in a sense.

[marceline]

I'm not exactly sure who you are addressing this to because, frankly, it feels a little passive-aggressive but I'll bite.

I wasn't outraged over the cancellation. Disappointed? Yes but not outraged. If you look back at that time, the ratings threads were basically a weekly thunderdome pitting AMC against OLTL for which show was more likely to die first. Personally, I had already quit watching AMC for about six months but I came back for the birth of the Hubbard baby and that's when the shows got cancelled. If AMC hadn't been cancelled, I probably would've quit watching once the Hubbards' story ran its course.

As for PP, yes I do feel like they gave me a superior product and that's why I don't want the show to return to ABC. I have things that I want from a soap: meaningful diversity, layered female characters with jobs who know about and use contraception, a couple of scenes that pass the Bechtel Test every now and then, social issue stories, more drama and less "soapy goodness", etc… PP gave me all of that and more. After that, why would I want to go back to a version of the show with alpha dogs and concubines; rich, skinny, white bimbos getting knocked up at the drop of a hat, and people coming back from the dead every fifteen minutes?

People were upset with the cancellations because as long as the shows were on the air there was a chance they could get better and because even as awful as they might've been there were still things to like/love. What's so confusing?

Also one of the main reasons some of us want to keep the shows from ABC is because we know that if The Mouse gets the rights back, Cartini will waste no time putting their noxious "stamp" on the characters and stories. Don't underestimate how much some of us (okay, just me) desperately wants to make sure that RC and FV never get the chance to touch these shows again

[Max]

Yes, because this question has always been ignored whenever I posed it in one of the existing threads.

I'm sorry, but I think it is a logical inconsistency for some to be upset at ABC for cancelling AMC and OLTL and then hoping (years later) that these shows never come back to ABC because they were so bad (as compared to Prospect Park).

[Vee]

Nobody ignored your question in those threads, Max. You've asked it before and been answered.

I personally don't care where the shows air, ABC or otherwise. But I understand why other people feel the way they do. ABC disenfranchised these soaps for years, putting them in the poorhouse, stripping them for parts, micromanaging them creatively and then shoving them off the air. Cancelling them for lousy, cheap reality programming was just the final insult. People love the shows and the brands, they don't love the way the network treated them over the last 15-20 years. But you knew that already, of course.

[cuzIsaySo]

I am a fan of the genre itself so I was really disapointed when i heard the news that ABC was canceling AMC and OLTL which i never followed regularly (i tried with amc but that was under Charles Pratt's reign of terror and the only thing i liked was Daniel Kennedy and I watched OLTL decades ago when Ty Moody was sexing Alex Olanov but i never felt a big attachment to the shows). I felt the same way with GL, Atwt, AW.

Each cancelation meant that my hope for daytijme drama to recover at last diminished. I was equally upset that PP didnt work out becuz that had the same effect.

[Max]

Thanks for these thoughtful responses.

I get the point that as long the shows were still on ABC there was always hope for a rejuvenation. However, I just think that in actuality such a thing was highly unlikely to occur, given years and years of disappointment. Even with GL, which was in the worst shape of all, there were people hoping for a return to greatness, but I just couldn't relate (given the history and given my own pessimism).

Maybe some people thought that the ABC versions were good at the time, but then thought they were bad after watching the PP versions. I apologize for failing to realize this, as this would explain the apparent discrepancy. (Although I do seem to recall that many disliked AMC and OLTL prior to ABC making the cancellation announcement.)

Marceline was right about the bad blood between the AMC and OLTL people. I seem to recall that they only united with one another after the cancellaiton.

I still don't understand the frequent (IMO) complaints about Cartini's GH, while nobody (that I am aware of) wants that soap to make a transition to the internet.

I agree that ABC treated these shows very poorly, but I feel that PP treated them--and their fans--even worse. PP obviously didn't give these shows a 15-20 year history of mistreatment, but the company lied to the public, the casts, and the crews of both shows during the first (aborted) and second revivals, and even failed to pay some of the cast members. We'll have to agree to disagree, but I think that PP is less ethical than ABC.

[cuzIsaySo]

Craptini is an awful writers who pretends to care about a show's history only in order to shove his own pet down our throat and refuse to admit when his creations dont work (sabrina, felixn kiki, notFranco, etc)

I want him out becuz i cant stand this version of a show i watched for 20 years. I wanna believe that the show will survive on ABC pass Craptini. Dont care that it makes a transition on the net becuz so far none of them made it pass a few seasons.

Is The Bay still on the air? What about Empire? I know DiVanity has wrapped up production. My point is that websoap has so far not been able to sustain a lengthy run so why would i want Gh to move from network to web only to last for half a season?

[Vee]

I'm not running them for pageant queen, Max, and what you're saying isn't relevant to what I was talking about. I think the execs behind PP are lousy, I always have. I only care about the shows they put out with the production staff they hired. Those EPs, those casts, those crews - independent of the management, they put out a very good show for both AMC and OLTL IMO. That's all that mattered to me.

As for which execs are worse, PP or ABC, they both lied to the public, their casts, their crews, they both have a multitude of sins - so who [!@#$%^&*] cares?

You got your answer: People loved these shows, they hated how ABC treated them over the last few decades, they wanted something better. They didn't want them cancelled, they wanted them helped. They didn't care who did it. I still don't care who chooses to value the programs, whether it's ABC, PP or someone else. And for my time I got a good show again for both AMC and OLTL, so I was happy for it, brief though it was.

You've been grappling with your "confusion" as to why people who watch ABC soaps felt like their shows should be saved when yours wasn't for at least the last four years, Max. Maybe you should consider letting it go, or just acknowledging what everyone else already knows - that you deeply resent the way we feel about our shows and that we got what you didn't.

[Max]

Give me a [!@#$%^&*] break. This thread has nothing to do with how the P&G soaps were treated versus how the Nixon soaps were treated. I have stated time and again that I didn't feel that the P&G soaps deserved a revival (and the last thing I would ever want would be for any cancelled soap to get the PP treatment), and you know that. If this thread upsets you, then just don't participate any further (as you've already made your point that you feel that this thread was unnecessary), instead of being the same jerk that you always are.

I do hope that ABC fires Cartini, because I think that GH deserves to remain on network television with better writers.

Even without the knowledge of PP's problems, I did think that AMC and OLTL would fail online because they had been off television for a while. I also knew that some older soap viewers would have a problem making the transition. However, I am surprised that online-only television has produced so few successes (especially in other genres). I also honestly once did think that the remaining four soaps could make a successful transition online (so long as there was no gap after these shows aired their final network episodes), but now I seriously doubt that.

[slick jones]

Personally, I was a HUGE AMC and OLTL fan since I was about 9 or 10 years old. I could not stand the shows at the end due to the Frons favorites. He destroyed the shows by micromanaging them down the drain. I was heartbroken to see them go off the air, even though I tended to FF them. I always hoped that new execs would come in that would nurture the shows. When they went off the air, I was sure they'd never be back. I appreciated the PP AMC, as the showrunners had a good product. OLTL was good, too, but had ABC run their shows like PP did, they could have been on another decade. Gone were the days of Ryan Lavery eating the show. I like Cam Mathison, but Frons' love of his character was detrimental to the show.

[VirginiaHamilton]

I will speak for myself when I say that as many problems as I had with both (and I had plenty), they shouldn't have gone off the air before General Hospital. No way in hell and the fact that they are gone while the worst of the three is currently wasting valuable airtime that could be spent on something better is appalling.

[cuzIsaySo]

I could never get into amc or oltl.pass a few months at the time over a 20 years period so I am glad the network stuck with Gh. I think what saved it was the brand name associated with it and the fact that it was taped on the west coast. Do i think oltl deserved to be canceled? Well if it was as bad as Gh is now under the same regime then yeah it deserved to go. Amc was an empty vessell towards the end from the few time i tried to get into it and had been guttered so bad it was unrecognizable for oldtime viewers and new viewers didnt pick it for various reasons. I think Frons always had an unrealistic view of his shows and what their audience wanted.