Did AMC, ATWT, GL or OLTL have the better SERIES FINALE?

[BKuzak]

I know this isn't what you were asking, but i personally liked the Another World final best. I just thought the ending was pretty great. Like One Life, they went back to an old favorite story by releasing Caroline the gorilla. and all those heart felt speeches at the end. it was also nice that they had the most popular actor to play the part Matt Crane to be back as Matt and the most popular actress Sandra Ferguson to play Amanda. from what i head, the storylines "comming up" weren't going to be that great so them leaving was at the right time. and it was perfect because the Another World 35 anniversary tribute book had just come out.

out of the ones you mentioned, my choice would be One Life. If you look at all the week's episodes, there was only one that sucked. Monday's had the "between heaven and hell" episode, tuesday cleared things up on who died and who lived, wednesday's sucked but then thursday with Viki's speech and Friday with Clint proposing was great. Yes they had cliff hangers but by then you knew Todd, Blair, John and Starr would be going to General hospital so most of that will be cleared up. and maybe John will throw in that Natalie didn't come with him because she wanted to be at her parents wedding.

[EricMontreal22]

In this week's SOD interview Agnes Nixon says finding Ellen Holly and the Carla story is the produest thing she's ever written (and goes as far to imply that she created the Vicki/Nicki story partly to draw people into watching the show so they would watch the Carla story which she found more important and potentially more divisive). That probably doesn't count though...

[DRW50]

DeliaIrisFan I thought you had a very profound post. I agree with a lot of what you said.

It's always arrogant to say that someone should prefer GL because of returns or to assume a longtime viewer would enjoy the last weeks because of returns - certainly many longtime viewers here did not. I do think that longtime returns can be a stopgap and a way to say goodbye if the writing isn't there. I thought some of GL's last weeks had very strong, emotional writing (like Phillip's terminal illness story - a hackneyed plot which brought out the best in GA and also in Ron Raines, never one of my favorite actors), and brought many stories to a natural goodbye, but certainly there was a lot of crap (Richard and Edmund in Spy vs Spy, Cyrus as Jenna's son for no apparent reason, the incredibly reactionary writing for Olivia and Natalia, which verged on Celluloid Closet status). I do think they strove for some emotional resonance, and overall, it paid off. There were a lot of much-needed goodbye moments, like Lillian at Maureen's grave, and Nola's brief return, Ed and Holly's brief reunion. It could have been done so much better, but at least the effort was made.

OLTL did have some moments like that - Viki's speech chief among them - but a lot of it just reminded me of many of RC's other non-storylines; the pieces are there, and are never put together. Something like the Heaven story was a nice idea, with some strong moments, but was ultimately kind of confusing and hollow - similar to things like Dorian's takeover of BE.

I don't think RC was capable of soap storytelling - I don't mean the OMG LURLENE IS LARRY, HOW HILARIOUS soap parody, I mean the basic day to day building of stories, using history to influence current and future plotting, and focusing on the best characters. As a result of that I think his OLTL often felt more like a spoof of a soap, and it's more difficult to care about a parody of a parody.

[DeliaIrisFan]

No, I'm glad she said that on the one hand. Although I have to admit a part of me questions continuing to brag about that 43 years later, and 25 years after the veteran actresses who had made that story come alive were treated in a way that pretty much negated the progress that it represented. I'm ambivalent, especially after reading Ellen Holly's most recent comments. Not that I would presume to know what really transpired between these two women, but it does shade Nixon's nostalgic present-day comments.

I agree with a lot of that. I was impressed by the Lillian scene, even if the idea of her marrying Buzz in a double wedding with Vanessa left me scratching my head, and the Ed/Holly cameo was gold (although it was so brief and contained so little dialogue that it was all subtext). And yes there were some good moments from Phillip's story., like when Billy made that toast to Alan at the wedding for taking part in the transplant at his wedding - something about, this is the kind of town Springfield is. I hesitate to think what kind of towns anyone would have said Llanview or Oakdale were at the end... "This is a town where gay people die tragically for the greater good of straight people, whose heterosexual relationships - however recent - are an inspiration to us all." "This is a town where people have a tendency to have suden psychotic breaks and commit violent crimes, but sometimes they break out of jail and redeem themselves somewhat by thwarting even worse criminals who were always bad." GL's finale just didn't seem fitting for the historical occasion of 70+ years coming to an end, but all of the others since were historic events in their own rights and didn't live up to their legacy in other ways, I felt.

[EricMontreal22]

I do agree--although it would be, at this point, I think worthless (not to mention completely out of character with non-confrontational Agnes) to specifically address Ellen's recent posts to the press. One issue is Agnes Nixon really only wrote OLTL for five years, and then briefly as a consultant while helpign Gordon Russell fit into the show--so I'm not sure, when asked repeatedly for favorite stories, which she should really pick...

[Chris B]

I don't think they need to address Ellen's comments, but for example, why didn't Daytime Confidential ask Ron Carlivati about Carla and Ed? Why weren't they brought back? If not Ellen Holly, why not Al Freeman who WAS invited back about 10 years ago? He's an Emmy winner, which is no small feat considering he was a black actor in the 70s. Or still, why not bring back the character they brought on as Josh Hall's son? Or do a new storyline that pays homage to Carla's original story. My point is that there are many ways you can explore that story even without bringing Holly back, but instead we get silence. It's like she didn't matter at all.

[DRW50]

Someone would probably say they had black people on the show at the end, so who cares. Given that Destiny was given nothing but degrading material her entire time on the show, maybe that's best left unsaid.

[EricMontreal22]

Iwas just going to say, I think often RC (and this is certainly not unique to soap writers, but) prefered to bring on his own characters and families--and then maybe haphazardly tie them to some historic character in a "who cares" manner.

[DRW50]

Who can forget the way he honored history with Aubrey.

[EricMontreal22]

We should have found out Destiny's mom that Greg killed or whatever that story was a Hall

[VirginiaHamilton]

Since I only watched the ABC soaps, it is clear that OLTL runs away with the prize of having the best series finale. Heartwarming enough to appeal to the nostalgists, yet cheeky enough to keep it light-hearted until the end - just the way I like a soap.

[Cheap21]

Aubrey was a bunch of rumors which never materialized into anything. She left the show untied to anyone

[DRW50]

Well she was a bunch of something.

Anyway, after being able to watch the entire last episode (I had been waiting to watch it with someone), I have to say that I spent most of the time not believing this was a last episode. It's not a bad thing to end on a cliffhanger, or to tie up some stories and leave the future going, but there was no real sense of majesty, no closure, no real reminder of the show's legacy. The closest was Destiny giving birth, and I did enjoy most of those scenes, especially the final moments with Bo and Nora. I'm also very happy David was not included in those last scenes, as I will never believe he is a part of that family. For most of the last few years I did not believe we'd get a happy, family moment with Matthew/Bo/Nora, and I should thank the show for letting this happen.

Everything with Jessica learning Clint was her biological father, the show taking pains to say that he wasn't any less of a father even if they weren't related by blood, her final reconciliation with Natalie, this was all good, emotional material, and, along with Matthew and the baby, the only time I felt emotional during the episode. The Clint/Viki stuff didn't work for me and never would have, but I realize this was the crowd-pleasing end. I'm glad they brought Brody back, and although I wish they'd said he was moving on with a new life and had no more ties to Jessica, they did bring him back, which was something I respect.

I've always been very funny about this, but the lack of followthrough with characters like Clint and Jessica took away a lot of the natural response I should have to scenes like this. Dorian was often a destructive character, selfish, needy, sometimes downright evil, and in her last few years, seemed to be waiting for a clown car which never came, but I still "got" Dorian. I understood what she did, and how she loved, and what she wanted. I don't understand Clint, I don't understand, or believe, the love that this Clint has for Viki; I don't understand Viki's love for him. I do understand Jessica, but it's not exactly a flattering view of her. As a result, these scenes were scenes I felt like I would have enjoyed more if I'd just stumbled onto the episode.

Getting to see Markko one last time was a wonderful treat. I think this was a decent ending for Starr. But I have no idea why Cole would be going around with Starr in the media when he's supposed to be dead. I just don't get that. I don't understand why the show faked Cole's death. I have no idea why these scenes were in the last episode.

I missed the community feel which has been dismantled in recent years. Bo and Nora never calling Viki and family to tell them about the baby was glaring. To RC, family just seemed to mean very small, tight groups of people. Anything else was just too much work. And even most of those relationships were often frayed. The only time more interaction occurred was for an "event." Everyone can gasp over Fraternity Row doing The Crying Game, but can't remember they have relatives who aren't in the room.

Speaking of that, seeing Vivian deliver Destiny's baby just made me miss Rachel even more...

I'll always love Blair, and I'm glad her last scenes on OLTL were with one of her strongest scene partners. The story itself - don't really care. Tomas' outrage and the plight of Tomas and Tomas' revenge was about as interesting as Ted King's role on Timecop. Ted is very charismatic but he's never been much of an actor IMO. I often go on about Tea, not in a good way, but can never say Florencia is boring. She always gave her all, with entertaining, unique performances. She and Ted King should be cast in a romance together ASAP.

Allison having Victor should have been one scene. Her manuscript was just fill in the blank mush and sounded nothing like her (I don't think she - or anyone - would call Jessica someone "who rescued herself"). Of all the ideas to borrow from ATWT, generic, obtrusive narration was not one of them. It also wasn't one of Barbara Garrick's better performances. I thought it fell flat, and reminded me that no one seemed to see Viki as the heart of the show - instead it was, once and for all, another rapist.

When I think of OLTL's end I tend to think of my memories of the past, not of the present. This finale just sort of put a final period on that for me. Decent, a grade above mediocre, but that episode will never be how I say goodbye to Llanview.

1. GL

2. AMC

3. ATWT

4. OLTL

[EricMontreal22]

You know, while i liked the finale more than you (much more), I agree with a lot of that. Particularly I didn't even think of the "duh" moment that Cole is now Starr's bodyguard--HOW will that keep him hidden?

And:

"Allison having Victor should have been one scene. Her manuscript was just fill in the blank mush and sounded nothing like her (I don't think she - or anyone - would call Jessica someone "who rescued herself"). Of all the ideas to borrow from ATWT, generic, obtrusive narration was not one of them"

Yes, this aspect does bother me. I know she's a looney and sometimes seems to have different personalities, but empathy was never one of them and to type out a script like that with those words makes ZERO sense for the character (this is why I initially was worried we were getting a St Elsewhere ending and we would see Alison in a looney bin or something and One Life had always been a decades long script she was working on--I would have been mad but at least it would explain why her "voice" and phrasing were so out of character). I do agree narrating a full episode is kinda an easy way out, and maybe I would have been more ok with it if it had been Vicki--the final reveal could be she was telling about her friends and family to the new Buchanen heir we had previously seen born or something. I mean I think RC would have to stretch hard enough to explain how and why Alison had Victor but then even crazy never stops talking Alison doesn't seem like she'd bother narrating to him the facts of Llanview from a script. But RC does prefer to go for the shock of the moment before any internal (or external) logic anyway and I admit *in the moment* most of that worked, it's when you try to think about any of it that it doesn't.

OK I haven't made my way through the massive finale thread yet, but in all the soap rags Ilene goes on about how in the finale Roxy goes to New York and talks to FV and RC about Fraternity Row--was this a cut scene when the PP deal fell through? I'm assuming it was (I did wonder why Roxy was in the house for the TV show, then disappeared, then rushed back from nowhere when the baby was born).

[tune_in_tomorrow]

Carl, you've made a very interesting point about the "islanding" of family. The interaction (or lack thereof) between Viki & her immediate family and Bo and his definitely doesn't correlate to their history. I still liked the finale much more than you did but if I had been an everyday viewer for the last decade or so, I might not have been as forgiving. I tend to not get TOO wrapped up in trying to make sense of retcons and continuity blunders, especially on a show like OLTL has apparently been, with musical parent/children combinations, doubles, and repeated back-from-the dead characters. I'd probably completely wash my hands of the genre instead of coming back every few years. Overall, mostly there was closure, emotion, and drama, so I don't think it limped to the finish line.

I've been interested to read everyone's perceptions, especially of GL since I didn't have much history with it. From what little I knew, the finale seemed to hit the right notes in terms of closure, nods to history, and sense of community that I believe was a hallmark of the show for a number of years. I don't know if everyone ended up with who they "should" have. I tend to think, though, that Reva and Josh getting back together is an example of what I didn't like about the ATWT finale. I know they had been in and out of marriage for more than 2 decades -- not sure if reuniting them for a finale really did the characters any justice. Regarding ATWT's final couples, the only one I really thought wasn't a bit of a mess was Casey/Allison, and I know that I'm in a minority there!