I might not read every single tread on this board but you really do come off as a disgruntled P&G fan in every post and not because I see other posters calling you that but because you yourself call you that.

Marley, I am honest enough with myself to admit that I am a disgruntled P&G soap fan. (I don't pretend to be objective.) But let's not pretend that there isn't a large segment of disgruntled AMC & OLTL as well (not just at SON, but at just about every related soap site on the internet). Unfortunately, few if any of these folks have had the courage to admit their biases.

Edited August 30, 201114 yr by Max

The Chew eventually should be called The Chew-das, cause its going to flop just as bad AMS if anyone will get what I mean

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! If they need a theme song, there ya go...I'm sure ol' tention ho would be happy to remix it for them.

The Chew is very likely going to end up as a massive failure. The same statement holds true for AMC and OLTL as internet soaps. However, there is a huge double-standard here: When the latter statement is made, one is immediately labeled a "disgruntled P&G soap fan who is bitter that his soaps didn't get saved." On the other hand, I have yet to see anyone at SON label those who predict (and even openly wish that) The Chew will fail as "disgruntled AMC & OLTL viewers." There is no excuse for this type of hypocrisy.

I understand that my "sore loser" attitude is very upsetting to AMC and OLTL fans. However, if there is anything worse than a sore loser, it is a sore winner: somebody who has already won the war (you folks succeeded in saving your beloved Nixon soaps), yet still remains bitter in spite of the victory. (In this instance, it seems that there is a large segment here that never misses a chance to piss on ABC, even though they were willing--unlike P&G--to license their soaps to another company.) Bitterness is a perfectly normal human emotion (if one is a loser), but I simply cannot understand how anyone could be bitter if that person came out a winner.

There's a huge, fundamental difference, though. We know next to NOTHING about internet soaps. NOTHING. The people who are deeming it a failure are, for the most part, basing that prediction on their own speculation that hasn't been confirmed or denied by anyone who actually really matters. Saying it'll fail because it's the internet and these soaps are already on their last legs is one thing (and IMO, valid, but I realize that my opinion isn't law), but saying it'll fail because PP won't do this or won't do that is absolutely ridiculous because no one has the foggiest idea of what exactly they'll be doing.

The food program, on the other hand, keeps putting out press release after press release, article after article, promo after promo, etc. We know what it's about, we know what it's supposed to do, and we know how they're going to do it. Of course, it hasn't premiered yet, so we don't know everything, but IMO (and again, I know it's not law), they've given us more than enough to go on in determining whether this will sink or swim.

Blah blah blah...

CHEW ON THIS ABC. I'm gonna be watching Days Of Our Lives!

You know. There's a little basic cable channel called the Food Network. Stick your crap there.

Edited August 30, 201114 yr by weareclouds

You know. There's a little basic cable channel called the Food Network. Stick your s**t there.

To suggest that The Chew doesn't belong on a broadcast network because we have The Food Network is a bogus and illogocial argument. If we extend this "logic" further, then we can conclude that sporting events don't belong on broadcast television because ESPN exists.

There's a huge, fundamental difference, though. We know next to NOTHING about internet soaps. NOTHING. The people who are deeming it a failure are, for the most part, basing that prediction on their own speculation that hasn't been confirmed or denied by anyone who actually really matters. Saying it'll fail because it's the internet and these soaps are already on their last legs is one thing (and IMO, valid, but I realize that my opinion isn't law), but saying it'll fail because PP won't do this or won't do that is absolutely ridiculous because no one has the foggiest idea of what exactly they'll be doing.

All My Shadows, thank you so much for this very thoughtful response (that did not contain any personal attacks, but instead responded to my post based upon the merits of the argument). Part of the reason why I believe that AMC and OLTL are likely to fail is because of speculation regarding what PP will or won't do. (As you stated, this is ridiculous, since so little is known at this point.) However, I've also stated that the PP venture will fail because AMC and OLTL are perceived--just like all cancelled programs would be--as failed shows (amongst the general public that has neither an emotional nor financial interest in them) that are on their last legs. (And as you agreed, this is a vaild reason to believe that the online venture will be a failure.) Furthermore, I believe that the AMC/OLTL online editions are likely to fail simply due to the law of averages, which states that the vast majority of entertainment projects will end up failing.

Edited August 30, 201114 yr by Max

I'm going to jump in here just to add that all this talk of "failure" needs to be tempered with a real definition of what "failure" is from a business perspective. We heard all this with "The Talk," including predictions that it wouldn't last six months. Well it did and it's still building its audience, albeit very slowly. Just like with The Talk, the new ABC lineup has a lot more leeway for failure because they cost less. As for the online shows, I can't even begin to fathom what the metric for success is going to be there.

I'm all for being disgruntled, trust. But if and when The Chew/Revolution/Katie fail, they'll just replace them with other talk/reality shows. It won't be a vindication for soaps because like it or not, soaps failed first.

All My Shadows, thank you so much for this very thoughtful response (that did not contain any personal attacks, but instead responded to my post based upon the merits of the argument). Part of the reason why I believe that AMC and OLTL are likely to fail is because of speculation regarding what PP will or won't do. (As you stated, this is ridiculous, since so little is known at this point.) However, I've also stated that the PP venture will fail because AMC and OLTL are perceived--just like all cancelled programs would be--as failed shows (amongst the general public that has neither an emotional nor financial interest in them) that are on their last legs. (And as you agreed, this is a vaild reason to believe that the online venture will be a failure.) Furthermore, I believe that the AMC/OLTL online editions are likely to fail simply due to the law of averages, which states that the vast majority of entertainment projects will end up failing.

There ya go. I think those are all solid arguments, and you'll get no bitchery from me for bringing them to the table.

Other people, though -- and you know who you are -- are just bored and need something to bash. Move along.

I'm going to jump in here just to add that all this talk of "failure" needs to be tempered with a real definition of what "failure" is from a business perspective. We heard all this with "The Talk," including predictions that it wouldn't last six months. Well it did and it's still building its audience, albeit very slowly. Just like with The Talk, the new ABC lineup has a lot more leeway for failure because they cost less. As for the online shows, I can't even begin to fathom what the metric for success is going to be there.

I'm all for being disgruntled, trust. But if and when The Chew/Revolution/Katie fail, they'll just replace them with other talk/reality shows. It won't be a vindication for soaps because like it or not, soaps failed first.

True words.

I'll admit that my definition of "failure" in this regard is nowhere near the definition of "failure" to ABC. I'm talking only in ratings, and that's it. The constant talk about how people aren't interested in soaps but are in this other stuff really really rubs me the wrong way -- really -- and I do feel a little vindication when it comes out that The Talk gets less viewers than ATWT. Yeah, I know, it's cheaper, and that means the network will keep it and spin the ratings in their favor, and that's cool. But we know what has a bigger audience. My rationale is...if the soaps can suck balls and get a bigger audience, what could they do if someone, anyone, actually gave a damn and tried to bring these shows into the 21st century?

Other people, though -- and you know who you are -- are just bored and need something to bash. Move along.

All My Shadows, thank you so much for that very kind comment.

I'm going to jump in here just to add that all this talk of "failure" needs to be tempered with a real definition of what "failure" is from a business perspective. We heard all this with "The Talk," including predictions that it wouldn't last six months. Well it did and it's still building its audience, albeit very slowly. Just like with The Talk, the new ABC lineup has a lot more leeway for failure because they cost less. As for the online shows, I can't even begin to fathom what the metric for success is going to be there.

I'm all for being disgruntled, trust. But if and when The Chew/Revolution/Katie fail, they'll just replace them with other talk/reality shows. It won't be a vindication for soaps because like it or not, soaps failed first.

Once again Marceline, you have the courage to speak the truth, in addition to having an amazing grasp of common sense. +1 for your comment.

When it comes to the PP online venture, I honestly don't know what metric PP will have to measure the success of AMC or OLTL. But obviously, if they last just a year or two, they will have been failures. On the other hand, if AMC and OLTL could each get an extra five years of life, then this venture will have to be considered a success (assuming that--during their entire online lives--each show doesn't look like the last year of GL).

Edited August 30, 201114 yr by Max

I'm going to jump in here just to add that all this talk of "failure" needs to be tempered with a real definition of what "failure" is from a business perspective. We heard all this with "The Talk," including predictions that it wouldn't last six months. Well it did and it's still building its audience, albeit very slowly. Just like with The Talk, the new ABC lineup has a lot more leeway for failure because they cost less. As for the online shows, I can't even begin to fathom what the metric for success is going to be there.

I'm all for being disgruntled, trust. But if and when The Chew/Revolution/Katie fail, they'll just replace them with other talk/reality shows. It won't be a vindication for soaps because like it or not, soaps failed first.

I think most people knew The Talk would stay around for a long time, because Julie Chen is so powerful at CBS. There were also extremely low expectations - ATWT wasn't exactly a demo hit. If anything I think people have been surprised at just how much The Talk is struggling - any minimal ratings success is overshadowed by the constant behind the scenes chaos. CBS has mismanaged the show very badly.

I don't believe ABC cares about any of these new shows, except Katie, since they had to pay through the nose for her. The others seem like poorly designed filler until ABC can transition out of daytime altogether, which is probably the main goal.

I also think that when the main spin for a new show is, "Who cares about ratings, it's cheaper," which is what the spin for The The has always been, that means these shows will probably never have any real chance. They are only seen based on what they aren't, not on what they could be.

Edited August 30, 201114 yr by CarlD2

The Chew is very likely going to end up as a massive failure. The same statement holds true for AMC and OLTL as internet soaps. However, there is a huge double-standard here: When the latter statement is made, one is immediately labeled a "disgruntled P&G soap fan who is bitter that his soaps didn't get saved." On the other hand, I have yet to see anyone at SON label those who predict (and even openly wish that) The Chew will fail as "disgruntled AMC & OLTL viewers." There is no excuse for this type of hypocrisy.

I understand that my "sore loser" attitude is very upsetting to AMC and OLTL fans. However, if there is anything worse than a sore loser, it is a sore winner: somebody who has already won the war (you folks succeeded in saving your beloved Nixon soaps), yet still remains bitter in spite of the victory. (In this instance, it seems that there is a large segment here that never misses a chance to piss on ABC, even though they were willing--unlike P&G--to license their soaps to another company.) Bitterness is a perfectly normal human emotion (if one is a loser), but I simply cannot understand how anyone could be bitter if that person came out a winner.

I'll say it as I have been saying it privetly. I TOO think AMC (esp) and OLT will fail on this new platform. Only P&G soap I watched was AW and got over that loss years ago. So no one can dare label me as a disgruntled P&G soap fan. I'm a disgurntled soap fan in general

All these senseless returns on AMC have done NOTHNG in the ratings. ( Oh God dare I say that word. Let me rephrase before the demo police come out and get me) The returns have done nothing in the demos. If those returns can't get the job done then nothing will and that's just a reality. I give AMC 12 months at best. I just think PP is taking on too much at one time and should considered reducing these shows to 30mins, or turn them into seasons. It would stand more of a chance to last longer as you get more quality stroylines and less filler ones.

Edited August 30, 201114 yr by aMLCproduction

If anything I think people have been surprised at just how much The Talk is struggling - any minimal ratings success is overshadowed by the constant behind the scenes chaos. CBS has mismanaged the show very badly.

But that's no different that The View, is it? Does anybody even remember what the show was like when Lisa Ling and Debbie Matapolous (sp?) were on? Back before Star and Rosie and Elizabeth and Whoopie turned it into a daily version of Christmas dinner in an alcoholic household? All that chaos will probably end up being good for the numbers.

Well it did and it's still building its audience, albeit very slowly. Just like with The Talk, the new ABC lineup has a lot more leeway for failure because they cost less.

It is? It's doing worse than ATWT did from my understanding and OLTL is kicking it's ass demo & ratings wise, sure doesn't seem all that successful when it's ass is being kicked by a cancelled soap......

It is? It's doing worse than ATWT did from my understanding and OLTL is kicking it's ass demo & ratings wise, sure doesn't seem all that successful when it's ass is being kicked by a cancelled soap......

LOL

But that's no different that The View, is it? Does anybody even remember what the show was like when Lisa Ling and Debbie Matapolous (sp?) were on? Back before Star and Rosie and Elizabeth and Whoopie turned it into a daily version of Christmas dinner in an alcoholic household? All that chaos will probably end up being good for the numbers.

I think it's worse - there are big behind the scenes problems, a number of producers and the CBS Daytime head booted. The other problem is that these changes with the panel onscreen generate no buzz, the way Debbie did. No one cares about why Sharon Osbourne or Leah Remini or Holly Robinson are going. No one cares about their replacements. The only people who talk about this are the very people CBS Daytime has little interest in.

A lot of people may have been predicting The Talk to be done in six months, I don't know, but as soon as I saw that Julie Chen was involved I knew this would be the long haul. But so far any expectations have been choked by apathy and by a very messy format. Which is probably the biggest problem facing The Chew and the other thing, moreso than any angry soap fans.

It is? It's doing worse than ATWT did from my understanding and OLTL is kicking it's ass demo & ratings wise, sure doesn't seem all that successful when it's ass is being kicked by a cancelled soap......

I think the idea is that it's doing the same or slightly better than ATWT and is cheaper to make. But with the amount of money they've probably had to spend, I think they expected better than this.

It is? It's doing worse than ATWT did from my understanding and OLTL is kicking it's ass demo & ratings wise, sure doesn't seem all that successful when it's ass is being kicked by a cancelled soap......

Here are the ratings for the week of August 8-12. This was its final week before returning in September.

http://www.soapoperanetwork.com/news/ratings-reflection-kassie-depaiva-comments-proven-right

It is? It's doing worse than ATWT did from my understanding and OLTL is kicking it's ass demo & ratings wise, sure doesn't seem all that successful when it's ass is being kicked by a cancelled soap......

Yes, The Talk's audience has been growing slowly. As for the fact that it's doing worse that ATWT, so? Again...it's cheaper. That's not spin, that's profit. People seem to have a really tough time grasping the concept of these networks wanting out of the soap business. Passions, GL, ATWT, AMC and OLTL were all canceled for a reason. There have been no new soaps for a reason and despite OLTL's "ass-kicking" those reasons haven't changed.