1996 was the last time this show was truly good. Hard to believe it has pretty much stunk for the better part of 26 years now!

I'd say the decline began with the 1997 spin off, which divided the attention of the creatives. Spin offs usually are not very good for the mother show, especially when they take away key characters. Another World in 1970 and 1980 are other examples of this.

Edited September 22, 20223 yr by Jdee43

3 hours ago, Jdee43 said:

1996 was the last time this show was truly good. Hard to believe it has pretty much stunk for the better part of 26 years now!

I'd say the decline began with the 1997 spin off, which divided the attention of the creatives. Spin offs usually are not very good for the mother show, especially when they take away key characters. Another World in 1970 and 1980 are other examples of this.

1996 was an excellent year for GH and 1997 was not lol.  I blame that more on Guza leaving, but PC probably didn't help with Riche's attention divided.  Anyhow, I think GH had some good years post 1996.  1998-2000 was pretty good and 2002 was really solid through the entirety of Brenda's return.  The show was on fire that year.  Personally, I would say the show started truly declining about a decade after 1996 in 2006-2007.  

Anyhow YMMV, but I don't think taking Lucy/Kevin/Scott away from the mother show hurt too much.  Scott wasn't even on GH at the time and Lucy/Kevin were always B characters although they were capable of leading.   GH still had a wealth of interesting, amazing characters available with Sonny/Brenda/Jax, Luke/Laura/Cassadines, Robin/Jason, Carly/Tony/Bobbie, etc.  They all just got some bad material in 1997 except Carly/Tony/AJ/Bobbie.  They saved 1997.

I kind of agree that the last time I truly enjoyed every aspect of the show was 1996.  When Guza came back the writing improved dramatically, and there were many great storylines and time periods after 96.  But that was the last time I enjoyed every story, every pairing, and was really excited to watch the show.

 

As much as I hated the regime for ruining the Quartermaines but I do think 2007 was such a strong and solid year. The Metro Court Hostage Crisis story was phenomenal to be honest

i do think 2012-2013 started solid with a lot of potential storylines that all got ruined down the line in my opinion 

8 hours ago, AMCOLTLLover said:

As much as I hated the regime for ruining the Quartermaines but I do think 2007 was such a strong and solid year. The Metro Court Hostage Crisis story was phenomenal to be honest

i do think 2012-2013 started solid with a lot of potential storylines that all got ruined down the line in my opinion 

I think there was a lot of good material from the time Vanessa returned through a few years too.  The contagion sweeps event, Metro Court, Scrubs and the refocus on the hospital, Laura waking up from her coma, the younger set of characters.  A lot of good stuff happened then.  What I remember is by the end of the Text Message Killer storyline I pretty much gave up on the show again.  When I did want to watch, like when JJ was back as Lucky, or for Brenda’s return, the entire show was so dark and dreary and Sonny centric that I didn’t find much to enjoy.

I had a lot of fun when Frank and Ron first arrived, until Robin’s return story finished.  Killing off AJ again, the fluke mess, Stafford being cast…yeah it was a mess.

On 9/22/2022 at 7:51 AM, Jdee43 said:

1996 was the last time this show was truly good. Hard to believe it has pretty much stunk for the better part of 26 years now!

I'd say the decline began with the 1997 spin off, which divided the attention of the creatives. Spin offs usually are not very good for the mother show, especially when they take away key characters. Another World in 1970 and 1980 are other examples of this.

96 may have been the last overall solid year but the show has had decent years storylines past that point. 

Riche leaving was the first strike but there were watchable moments during JFP's run. 2012-14 was a decent improvement. 2015-17 until Steve Burton's return was low point. Now we may be back to a low point again with cast bloating and unorganized plots. 

This is in contrast to say Y&R which has a clear decline point of 2005, with issues beginning in 2002. 

Yeah, I can agree 1996 was the last year I recall liking everything, but in 2002 when Vanessa returned I liked pretty much everything to-it just wasn't a full solid year of good stories.

There are still several years I look back fondly at post 1996.  I can specifically state when Days went into a decline, but GH has had some peaks and valleys.  I think most years I can think of a good story or event, even if the overall show wasn't great. 

2 hours ago, ironlion said:

Riche leaving was the first strike but there were watchable moments during JFP's run.

I'm afraid what I want to say is going to sound offensive, so I will pre-apologize, but wouldn't that be better said, something like, When Angela Shapiro fired Wendy Riche, blah blah as you say after that edit. And, while I'm sticking my neck out, if anyone knows why Shapiro did that incredibly stupid thing, I'd love to hear it.

On 9/24/2022 at 7:11 PM, Tonksadora said:

I'm afraid what I want to say is going to sound offensive, so I will pre-apologize, but wouldn't that be better said, something like, When Angela Shapiro fired Wendy Riche, blah blah as you say after that edit. And, while I'm sticking my neck out, if anyone knows why Shapiro did that incredibly stupid thing, I'd love to hear it.

Riche herself has said she should have left sooner.  Two shows was too much, and the main show had been troubled for a bit before she left.  She and Guza were allegedly not getting along, the show was very dark (nothing like it would be later though), and the interim HW team wasn’t exciting ABC.

It just should have been someone else besides JFP.  I truly do not know who at that point I would have given the show to.  I do think Ed Scott would have been a better fit at GH than DAYS, but I also have a hard time imagining him there.

1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

Riche herself has said she should have left sooner.  Two shows was too much, and the main show had been troubled for a bit before she left.  She and Guza were allegedly not getting along, the show was very dark (nothing like it would be later though), and the interim HW team wasn’t exciting ABC.

It just should have been someone else besides JFP.  I truly do not know who at that point I would have given the show to.  I do think Ed Scott would have been a better fit at GH than DAYS, but I also have a hard time imagining him there.

And the next hard question goes begging for an answer: why the hell did JFP stay so long?! She did not have a pattern of staying long but she sure did at GH. Maybe because she was used to someone firing her. And no one did.

1 hour ago, Tonksadora said:

And the next hard question goes begging for an answer: why the hell did JFP stay so long?! She did not have a pattern of staying long but she sure did at GH. Maybe because she was used to someone firing her. And no one did.

I think part of what happened was Frons felt GH was strong enough with JFP and Guza.  But look at AMC and OLTL- I think they assumed it was nearing the end within the decade and he left all those EP’s in place even when he burned through HW on AMC.  Although I do think he fired Guza and then was fired himself.

Frons went to the wall to try to save first Guza, then GH in 2011 from the ax IIRC. He felt Guza was GH's true north, that only he could write it. But he couldn't protect him after a certain point, and he was gone not long after himself.

I think JFP stayed on because she was a capable line producer, and because after Guza's grand return with Frons' blessing in '02 and her complete disaster stint with Megan McTavish the previous year that was largely what she was reduced to. Guza had learned from his battles with Wendy Riche and came back with a co-producer credit; he had creative control (beneath Frons), which was unheard of for anyone other than JFP in the mix at that time. And she lost it all. Based on the difference between her past work at other shows and at GH post-2001/early '02, it appeared as though Jill never had real creative control (outside of the '08 WGA strike) at GH again. And she deserved to lose it. She was reduced to getting her ex Kale Browne constant voice-over gigs on the show because he was widely disliked among performers and production across ABC (Hillary B. Smith and Mark Derwin were still taking anonymous shots at him in the OLTL oral history, and he was fired the instant she moved to GH) and she no longer had the power to force him onscreen.

Edited September 26, 20223 yr by Vee

7 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I think part of what happened was Frons felt GH was strong enough with JFP and Guza.  But look at AMC and OLTL- I think they assumed it was nearing the end within the decade and he left all those EP’s in place even when he burned through HW on AMC.  Although I do think he fired Guza and then was fired himself.

Well, some time in there they surely did seem to treat OLTL one way, AMC another way & GH yet a third way instead of treating them as a whole as had been done in the past. Relative to Frons end, when was Ann's end?

6 hours ago, Vee said:

Based on the difference between her past work at other shows and at GH post-2001/early '02, it appeared as though Jill never had real creative control (outside of the '08 WGA strike) at GH again. And she deserved to lose it.

Well, this part here, it does echo her past work at other shows, where she'd reach a point where she no longer had real power & it would just be a matter of weeks till she'd be fired outright. And also that she would've done something or somethings plural to deserve it. I'm not trying to stomp on your excellent examination of JFP toward the end here, it just jumped out at me & resonated with other "near the ends".

On 10/14/2019 at 6:15 PM, victoria foxton said:

I liked Sister Camellia McKay. But she had no chemistry with Duke. I thought Camellia had chemistry with Tom Hardy. A Camellia/Tom/Simone would've been interesting. I also liked that she was a psychiatric nurse. Back then a huge chunk of the characters were medical professionals. Unlike now were everyone's a mobster, rapist or serial killer. 

Actually Camellia had plenty of chemistry with Duke in those flashbacks of their times together in L'Orleans as well as earlier interactions and the late one. When they've first met in L'Orleans, the twinkle in her eyes and flirting with sexual innuendo in the wood... So Ian Buchanan and Liz Keifer obviously had good chemistry (she also spoke great deal about him when they were working together like how he always had her in stiches), but it must have been toned it down by TPTBS due to the nature of their heavy- handed and repetitive storyline with little room to grow and icky feelings of 80's audience with incestuous romance and complaints of DuAnna fans.  Tom was a nice guy, his dynamic with Camellia were more of platonic and sibling relationship, and they didn't have romantic chemistry. So I wouldn't think they would be a fit for friends yes, but not couple.