GH: Classic Thread

[FrenchFan]

Very exciting to read about the 1969 episodes. I had imagined Phil had fled for the scene of Polly's accident but this is not at all how it happened.

Can't wait to see how he will meet Diana, and also Peter Taylor's introduction.

[BrendaB]

LOL.  Ruby was like a more cantankerous version of Mrs Garret from the Facts of Live, but she was so TeamKaren&Jagger, not impartial at all.  Jagger was definitely a (beautiful) fool for letting the best thing that ever happened to him slip through his fingers.  Bill Levinson's writing team really worked Karen up with her backstory and current problems, making her the hard-working, goody-goody heroine going through tough times, so it's kind of a sad waste how Karen was killed off in the Port Charles spin off a few years later.  I liked the recast doctor version of Karen on that show.  I wonder if they were trying to get Antonio Sabatto, Jr. to come back and play Jagger on there...

I'm now at the end of October 1993 when Claire Labine's work starts showing up and the Halloween episode was so fun between Ned trying to blackmail Julia for sexual harrassmant, Lucy & Damian versus Scott & Katherine at the Halloween party, and of course the second greatest return in soap history (after the "Amazing Grace" return of Brenda):

The BOOM! on the next episode was so sad (even though it was a random dayplayer), but that's a great re-entrance for some iconic characters.  Lucky was instantly a star.  That casting director really could pick 'em in the early 1990s.

[titan1978]

Did Claire not want to write for Karen and Jagger?  They had such short tenures.

[Vee]

IIRC both Cari Shayne and Sabato chose to leave.

[carolineg]

I have been watching early Brenda on youtube and it's actually stuff I don't have and haven't seen since it aired and Brenda is annoying, but so are Karen and Jagger.   Brenda's the only direct person in the group.  She wants Jagger and makes it known and Karen/Jagger are just so wishy washy about their feelings because?  Jason?  Like, you guys are 16.  Jason will get over it.   Brenda's foray into child porn with spreading Karen's pictures will never be a good look, but Karen is so mean and always slut-shaming Brenda.  I know Karen's got a lot going on and the victim and all, but I never liked her lol.   And of course Jagger says he doesn't want Brenda, but clearly is still into both girls, so I am actually not surprised he cheats on Karen later on.   I do believe ASJ was asked to do PC and he declined or was on Melrose Place at the time.  They did leave it a bit open ended for a while, so I think they were hoping to eventually get ASJ.

Also around March 1993 Brenda and Jason kiss, which doesn't really lead anywhere.  Robin is all up in that business and it seems like Brenda/Robin/Jason triangle was in the works with Brenda/Robin becoming rivals, but thankfully that doesn't pan out.   It's weird to think how that would have changed so much of the show if that went in that direction.  I think I am about 6 months behind you right now.

@titan1978I believe both Cari Shayne and ASJ decided not to renew their contracts, so it wasn't a Labine decision.

[BrendaB]

On the November 8, 1993 episode is when Brenda and Jason overhear Rhonda telling Ruby about Karen's childhood rape/molestation and then Brenda & Jason express a whole bunch of regret about both their past actions and words toward Karen.  But, yeah, I'm in the same boat @carolineg, Karen just wasn't likeable compared to all the characters around her.  They told a lot of story about her, but they probably needed a more charismatic actress to pull off the part-- like Rebecca Herbst if she was born 5 years earlier.  Elizabeth kind of seems like she was Karen 2.0, anyways.

It seems like a batch of major characters are going to be written off in 1994 during Labine's first full year:  Karen, Jagger, Marco, Sean, Tiffany, Julia (I really loved the sisterly bond and them pulling one over on Ned at the end), etc. but Labine still had a full roster of great characters to start her run on the show with.

I did notice how Jon Russell from One Life To Live (Dorian Lord's hottest love interest, besides David Vickers) represented Ryan Chamberlain during his trial and is now Lucy's lawyer in her custody battle with Scott.  Of course, Marco Dane has been a great comedic character on GH after his remarkable OLTL run.  I keep seeing Gillian Spencer (original Vicki Lord) in the writing credits for GH in 1993.  Seems like the ABC soaps have had nice cross-overs and cross-pollination for decades.

Edited April 30, 2023 by BrendaB

[titan1978]

Their contracts being so short are what surprises me. Although I truthfully do not see a huge place for them beyond the point they actually leave the show, they needed a break for a couple of years to let Brenda and other characters breathe. I think it would have diminished the later stories with Stone to have Jagger be a larger focus.  Their reunion episodes were just the right amount.

Now if PC had started with Jagger and Karen played by their original actors it would have made me a more consistent viewer.  I loved both Brenda and Karen, one of the few times I truly enjoyed both parts of a triangle or rivalry equally.  

Edited April 30, 2023 by titan1978

[carolineg]

I think Cari Shayne is okay, but things always happen to Karen.  She's always the victim and does very little for herself.   Brenda sets her up for cheating and she just cries about it instead of defending herself to the school board of Jason and Robin who, hilariously, vote against her.  Brenda is the heavy here and wrong, but Karen does little or nothing to fight back.  That probably is what Labine is talking about when she said her first week she had Karen throw the pills back at Sonny.  Obviously, the fact she is an abuse victim frames things differently, but all she did was whine about things to Jagger and Jason instead of standing up for herself.  

@titan1978I struggle to think what would have been next for Jagger/Karen once you remove Brenda from the equation, but I do think it's very awkward they aren't around for the Stone story.   I know they appear when Stone is diagnosed, but it's very strange they didn't come back for his death or funeral.  

[AMCHistory]

I really liked the recast Karen on Port Charles, Jennifer Hammond. I think she was a loss to Port Charles. She brought a little camp to the role. Beautiful, but quirky and awkward. PC’s biggest mistake was sidelining Karen and Joe. The core viewers were rooting for them, and Jennifer and Michael Dietz. 
 

The start of PC was tough with many mentions of Jagger and no cameo. I bet they could have secured ASJ for a short stint - with the right $ and perks. The red wedding dress moment was a standout. 
 

[BrendaB]

Are you seeing those scenes you mention about Brenda, Robin, Jason, Karen, etc. on Youtube?  I don't remember them in the AddieCate's uploads since there's gaps on that playlist (absolutely annoying that ABC/Hulu just don't upload every episode in their taped archives).  That teen scene on GH was so cute back then.  I definitetly LOLed at Robin & Stone's first meeting and interactions when Robin told Jagger to "take him back" where he finally found him.

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@titan1978 GH had a lot of fun triangles (or squares) in 1993.  Besides the big one with Brenda, Jagger & Karen, I think the Lucy, Scott, Dominique (later Catherine) one was riveting, and the AJ, Julia & Ned was fun, but the the craziest one was Tracy, Paul, Jenny & Ned.

[carolineg]

Yes, it's an early Brenda playlist, so you are only following Brenda's story, but those scenes are in there.  It's called Diamonds at the Start and follows the entirety of Brenda's story.  I have never seen these edits before and if this uploader is anywhere around this board know I appreciate you!

[AMCHistory]

This one was a dud for me because Ned/Jenny and Paul/Jenny had no chemistry. They were couples for couples sake. I never got why Paul and Jenny were endgame when Tracy and Paul were hot. 

[BrendaB]

Oh, I wasn't rooting for either couple or any combination of the couples in that crazy group.  I was just enjoying all the comedy & fall-out drama that resulted from it-- like the couples massage scenes at the spa with Marco.  Tracy & Marco's plotting against Jenny & Paul was a lot of lighthearted fun.  Ned trying to get back with Jenny by conning her and Paul about Tracy's whereabouts to send Paul off on a world wide goosechase was mean, but it was delicious how Jenny dumped soup on Ned's head when she found out!  Even Tracy's goodbye scenes before she left in 1993 were awesome.  There was real bittersweet tenderness between her and her parents and even AJ.

Thanks @carolineg .  I'm looking forward to watching the whole Brenda story in those edits!

[Vee]

Bringing Marco Dane onto GH was always a crazy thing to me and part of the strange, magical ABC synergy of the golden era. I have seen very little of that material and I've always wondered whose idea it was and why, and if they made much mention of OLTL or Llanview. I also wonder if Linda Gottlieb attempted at all to get Gerald Anthony to recur at OLTL again.

I had no idea Jon Russell turned up on GH. AFAIK he was gone from OLTL by then. I do know Nora on OLTL was brought on as an old friend/colleague of his.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Vee

[DeliaIrisFan]

The most logical next story involving Karen in 1994, had she stayed, would have been for her and Laura to get to know each other, and Laura remembering/acknowledging her own rape after hearing about Karen's ordeal.  Not that I think ABC would have allowed such a thing at that point (as opposed to a few years later, under different backstage circumstances).

I binged those fall 1993 episodes a year or two ago, and it was such a blast (I believe the poster is active in this thread, so THANK YOU).  However, it was also glaring that the revelation of Karen's abuse played out in the same episodes as Luke and Laura's return.

I think at least the conclusion of Karen's child molestation story, taken in its own right, was handled sensitively and mostly holds up 30 years later.  (I have not watched the stripping episodes, and have no intention of doing so.)  But airing a "serious" story about the trauma of sexual violence while selling Luke and Laura's big, romantic comeback for all it was worth...so wrong. 

I can only imagine what Claire Labine thought coming in, with one of those stories already underway and the other advertised on billboards around the country.  I believe Karen's was the only rape story Labine was ever actively involved in writing, I suspect by choice. 

As for the recast Karen/PC, I agree she was a highlight of that show, and IMO much more interesting than what I've seen of the character's original run.  Even at the time, before I know anything about his portrayer's worldviews, I didn't feel like Jagger was needed when Karen returned.  Honestly, what I've seen of Brenda/Karen's rivalry would have been at least as interesting had they been fighting over who would get to keep one of his underwear billboards.  And it made total sense that a couple who got married right out of high school wouldn't make it longterm (they didn't even need the affair part).