OLTL's stance is that RH is Todd and TSJ is Victor. The "truth," I'm sure, shall live on in fanfic.

Sorry, TeamEric, but I must concur w/ Vee. Sure, I'm saying this story has holes and could be rewritten easily, but that's b/c I'm cynical. Truth is, OLTL wants us to take Irene's word for it that RH is the Once and Future Todd.

It's not all guitars and bad '90s hair anymore.

No, now it's all synthesizer stings and bad '10's hair. ;-)

Here's a thought: why bother doing a "two Todds" story at all? Why not pull another Nicholas Walker/James DePaiva and have the original actor reclaim his role? Or better yet, keep TSJ as Todd, and have RH return as a new and altogether different character? I'd still cry foul either way, but I'm learning more and more that today's soap fans simply don't give a [!@#$%^&*].

You're right, in this case I don't. And there are two reasons why you do the story: One, doing a two Todds story guaranteed them a massive ratings gain and a lot of publicity. And two, the character of Todd since the rapemance had become radioactive. He had grown hollow and unrootable to many in the general audience, a fact OLTL has obviously picked up on since they have now utterly undone the story and absolved both characters. The crime exists, the perpetrator doesn't, not really. And now they have two characters who can go forward due to this, with two leading actors, and they preserved two fanbases in the process.

I was not, up until 2008, a fan of the "imposter" theory. I often bashed it. I thought it was an idiotic idea and unfair to the recast. But there are some things that just go too far, and Todd's conduct during the rapemance and since - with Starr, with Hope, with Marty, especially in the last two years - is just too much. Todd could not continue on the show like that. AFAIC they did what they had to do, silly story or not. And now they have a richer interplay with Todd, his brother, Blair and Tea for the future, because no way do I believe Victor Lord Jr. is never going to be seen again.

Frankly, that's giving the show entirely too much credit. I mean, that all sounds good on paper. Chances are, however, the minute this whole story wound down, TSJ either would've been moved to another story, back-burnered, or sent packing, leaving RH, KDP, and possibly FL (along with all of Todd's offspring) to reenact "OLTL: The JFP Years."

You can believe that if you want. DAYS kept Roman and John for years. I believe what I've heard, which is that OLTL intended to do the same but for recent circumstances.

Is this going to be another "Katrina Karr" between the two of us? I. WAS. KIDDING.

Blame the Internet, and lack of tone.

Sorry, TeamEric, but I must concur w/ Vee. Sure, I'm saying this story has holes and could be rewritten easily, but that's b/c I'm cynical. Truth is, OLTL wants us to take Irene's word for it that RH is the Once and Future Todd.

Yes, they do. They want that because they want the storyline done in two weeks when the bulk of TSJ's taped material runs out. They're not trying to set up another mystery of "was Irene telling the truth?? You decide!" No, they just want the reveal done. I'm not saying it's not sloppy or that it doesn't have some holes, but this is it - this is what we get. You can either take it or leave it, but the canon is that Howarth is Todd and St. John is Victor. You can imagine other scenarios you would like to see play out in the future or postulate why she could lie, but this is where we are and this is where it is going forward. I mean, let's accept a little of what we're seeing onscreen as it's actually happening, please. Mentally rewriting it in real time rather defeats the purpose of watching the show.

Even if RH doesn't go to the online show, I seriously doubt TSJ is waiting in the wings to take the role back. He's moving to California. I wouldn't be surprised to see Prospect Park write Todd and Blair out permanently if they can't get Howarth. I would love to have TSJ back as Victor, but all indications are that he is going out west.

No, now it's all synthesizer stings and bad '10's hair. ;-)

I like synth.

And now I'm editing this again because I misread Khan. I'm a little too biting to him and I don't like that. But yes, the point stands, Eric - you either accept some of the show as you watch it or you invent your own reality.

Edited August 18, 201114 yr by Vee

And two, the character of Todd since the rapemance had become radioactive.

With all due respect, Vee, I think Todd was "radioactive" long before the rapemance. OLTL should have handed RH his hat and shown him the door after Todd terrorized a then-blind Nora.

DAYS kept Roman and John for years.

They also wrote Wayne Northrop's Roman so poorly after his return, turning a once-dynamic leading man into someone so boring that even his own soulmate (Marlena) and nemesis (Stefano) preferred dealing with his impostor instead.

With all due respect, Vee, I think Todd was "radioactive" long before the rapemance. OLTL should have handed RH his hat and shown him the door after Todd terrorized a then-blind Nora.

Yes, and they shouldn't have killed Meredith off in 1971(?). But look, surely you can admit they had struck a very careful equilibrium with Todd's character in the '90s and under Howarth that was demolished by a series of horrific storylines with both actors, each worse than the next - and for many people, the rapemance was the worst of all. I know Eric will jump in here and insist that baby Jack was sooo much worse than the rapemance, and it's certainly true that they're both awful, awful stories, but even at his worst Todd never necessitated an "imposter" before the rapemance. It fundamentally broke the character in a way that had never been done before. If they were all the same, something like this would have happened years ago.

They also wrote Wayne Northrop's Roman so poorly after his return, turning a once-dynamic leading man into someone so boring that even his own soulmate (Marlena) and nemesis (Stefano) preferred dealing with his impostor instead.

And that was on Jim Reilly's lack of interest in Northrop. The initial setup, however, was solid, and in fact the "imposter" character - John - flourished for years to come. Meanwhile, OLTL is not lacking in interest for either Todd.

Edited August 18, 201114 yr by Vee

I mean, let's accept a little of what we're seeing onscreen as it's actually happening, please.

I'm sorry, I can't. Not anymore. After so many years, and so many back-from-the-dead stories - and long-lost-twin stories, and say-what-he-was-actually-a-child-molester?! stories - I can't take anything any soap does at face value anymore. It's too much.

And now I'm editing this again because I misread Khan. I'm a little too biting to him and I don't like that.

Pshaw. You're never too biting with me, Vee, and that's a fact.

I'm sorry, I can't. Not anymore. After so many years, and so many back-from-the-dead stories - and long-lost-twin stories, and say-what-he-was-actually-a-child-molester?! stories - I can't take anything any soap does at face value anymore. It's too much.

I can totally understand cynicism. But that doesn't change the fact that many of us are looking at the actual new paradigm the show is presenting, which is that TSJ is playing Victor and RH is playing Todd, and the possibilities therein. We're accounting for the reality as it happens. It would be a shame if you refused to partake, but I will say I think what you're doing here is only diving deeper down the rabbit hole even as you decry it.

Pshaw. You're never too biting with me, Vee, and that's a fact.

A troubling side effect of my turning thirty.

Yes, and they shouldn't have killed Meredith off in 1971(?).

HELL YEAH!

But look, surely you can admit they had struck a very careful equilibrium with Todd's character in the '90s and under Howarth that was demolished by a series of horrific storylines with both actors, each worse than the next

That, I'll agree with. Whether you believe Michael Malone's alleged assertion that Marty was Todd's path toward redemption, the truth is, he and his team were making great, careful strides in presenting Todd as something other than petulant "Frat Boy #1," or whatever he was known as before he was known as "Todd."

Then, some idiot HW (was it Jean Passanante and/or Leah Laiman?) had to have Blair do something OOC like sleep with Patrick, and it all went to hell in a sad, '90's mulleted basket.

Edited August 18, 201114 yr by Khan

For as much sport as has been made of Irene's explanation of the character, they left the nature of his disorder very vague.

The difference between us is I am not coming from a place of hatred of EITHER actor.

I loved RH for years and even followed him to ATWT in hopes he'd refind his dramatic acting chops in 2003. I adored HIS Todd and never thought I'd accept the recast. So I am torn in that I would have loved to see a kick azz RH return and light up the show as he did his first two runs and really give Trevor a run for it. I've had my issues with Trevor at times as I did RH but I "saw" both playing real Todd.

Alas, RH returned as a lost puppy version. Ugh.

The promo is the only promising sign of RH's Todd I've seen since his return.

And the character who has been onscreen for years has developed into a calculating schemer. Do you really think he was going to suddenly turn into an invalid had he remained? The "ill twin" angle only adds more sympathy for Victor Jr. - he's so sick he became a monster, but it was because of his mother's years of conditioning.

The real Todd Manning IS meant to be a MONSTER, Vee, because of HIS abusive childhood. Your whitewashing of RH's Todd into a sweet, soulful, misunderstood wonderful FATHER figure is absurd selective memory.

I get you want Todd LORD back but that was one single year and a total rewrite of his core character. The real Todd threw out babies like TRASH, risked his son's life to keep his lies, gaslit his Shorty and terrorized her with fake dead nanny.

Until Starr or the show also acknowledges RH's horrible fathering acts, this story is meaningless propping of RH.

Good grief this is the hosptal rapist story all over again. (TSJ) is the bad rapist vs Todd (RH) is the good rapist.

Jamey went back and forth on that all spring but the bottom line is she didn't go anywhere and he later admitted to some egg on his face as he misunderstood the plans for her storyline. She came back after a brief stint on the backburner to dominate the rest of 2010 with her cancer story.

1) I never heard Jamey admit any egg on his face and forgive me, I'll need a link as your memory of facts has been proven faulty too many times.

2) You claimed FF was backburned after early 2010 which was untrue but okay if she was so backburned the rest of the year how did FF wind up with 1 MORE episode than Florencia if FL only had a brief stint on backburner and dominated the rest of the year?

Again, a little fact checking:

FL was on the backburner from mid Feb through mid-April in 2010.

For May Sweeps, FL and her cancery story had big time airtime.

From June through mid-September, FL's airtime did NOT dominate this show as she didn't dominate episode counts. That was the teens/Fords Invasion.

FL dominated from mid-September through early November.

After TnT's big wedding party, FL was backburned again through end of the year.

Facts are FL wound up with 45-46% of episodes in 2010 and 2011. That is NOT dominating front burner status which is normally 70% for OLTL.

Edited August 18, 201114 yr by TeamEric

Oh, let's not go down that road. TeamEric will start in about how Blair was in-character and also how she made Todd do everything including shoot Kennedy.

And I've always wanted to see Lynn Benesch come back as Meredith's ghost.

And I've always wanted to see Lynn Benesch come back as Meredith's ghost.

Why settle for a ghost? We could have her back and her twin sister!

The difference between us is I am not coming from a place of hatred of EITHER actor.

Excuse me? I'm sorry, I don't hate either actor, and I never remotely said I did. I think they're both incredibly talented and wish they were both remaining on the show. I was supportive of TSJ as Todd from the start in the years before he began phoning it in and before the character became irredeemable in 2008, but even after that I thought he did some fascinating work. And I have been critical of both Howarth and St. John's work over the years, on both OLTL and ATWT, for both men. I thought Roger's stint on ATWT was a joke, and I thought he phoned it in many times on OLTL in later years or simply did bad work at other times. Critiquing an actor's work =/= 'hating them.'

The real Todd Manning IS meant to be a MONSTER, Vee, because of HIS abusive childhood. Your whitewashing of RH's Todd into a sweet, soulful, misunderstood wonderful FATHER figure is absurd selective memory.

I don't recall ever calling him those things...

I get you want Todd LORD back but that was one single year and a total rewrite of his core character. The real Todd threw out babies like TRASH, risked his son's life to keep his lies, gaslit his Shorty and terrorized her with fake dead nanny.

One, I don't want "Todd Lord" and I'm not sure what that means. Two, you're right, the real Todd did that, but he also had moments of genuine human kindness and decency. If you're going to paint it all with the same brush, though, and claim he was incapable of any human kindness to his loved ones, what about TSJ's Todd and Dani, and those cozy family scenes? Was that "Todd Lord" too? Or were you cool with it because it was your preferred love interest?

Until Starr or the show also acknowledges RH's horrible fathering acts, this story is meaningless propping of RH.

Oh, this is your new angle? "RH propping?" You really have changed.

[2) You claimed FF was backburned after early 2010 which was untrue but okay if she was so backburned the rest of the year how did FF wind up with 1 MORE episode than Florencia if FL only had a brief stint on backburner and dominated the rest of the year?

Because Tea's huge storyline was about her "death." During which time she died, and was offscreen for several weeks. What was Gigi's frontburner story in 2010, after Stacy and the Sierra Rose stuff died down? The Native American interlude, which didn't last that long? Llanview U with Cristian? That was not a frontburner affair. We can play numbers games all you want but the bottom line is if you ask people which character had the major story last year - Tea or Gigi - we both know the answer.

Edited August 18, 201114 yr by Vee

We can play numbers games all you want but the bottom line is if you ask people which character had the major story last year - Tea or Gigi - we both know the answer.

Tess.

Sorry, TeamEric, but I must concur w/ Vee. Sure, I'm saying this story has holes and could be rewritten easily, but that's b/c I'm cynical. Truth is, OLTL wants us to take Irene's word for it that RH is the Once and Future Todd.

It's very, very easy to undo this absurdity, TOO EASY. Look at the many fans already screaming this makes NO SENSE.

Color me a far more cynical fan as I have to ask myself why RC didn't wrap up story up tighter with concrete proof?

See I remember how Flor was RH's old stand by exit story and now RC has written in another. Just in case.

Tess.

It's a good joke, but she wasn't even on last year! The terrible Teen Jessica story was on til May though.