Exactly. I loathed him as Paul. I hate that he was paid big bucks to do [!@#$%^&*] work as Paul.

I followed RH to ATWT as I hoped he'd refind his dramatic acting chops. JMO, he was great in the first story with Rose which was far more Toddian (which I respect upset long-time ATWT viewers). I even enjoyed early Paul and Roseanne but then he became this perpetual victim of James, Barbara, Emily, Meg, etc. He was just a sad little [!@#$%^&*] and that is not RH's strengths so he started to phone it in there too. I yawned and quit ATWT.

No one is more surprised than me that TSJ won me over as a recast.

Now RH is written with all the vulnerability and angst but without any of the darkness, rage or fierceness. He's the poor, gentle lost soul instead of the vengeance is MINE sayeth Todd Manning I and many fans were told was coming back.

Maybe because he was locked up and had memory loss that vengeance hasn't risen to the surface? Are people asking for too much too soon?

This is the Todd I remember from before 1998 or 2000, the one who could still express a depth of emotion, feeling and yes, some maturity and intellect as opposed to just stupid jokes and a lot of inarticulate rage. He came back to this place near the end of his tenure, in 2003.

Fanbases mad because Todd is not living out some fanfic dream of raining rage down upon all the unbelievers do not interest me. This is a man who was in isolation for eight years, and in 2003 he left in a fairly smart mental place, where he knew he had done wrong and was determined to win his family back. He's had a long time to not rehash the same crap he always did from 1998-2002 or so. I would not have been interested in a return of shouty, angry Todd swearing vengeance on his traitorous whorewives. That is so tired. Let him keep his anger targeted on where it belongs - TSJ, and the people who did this to him. I'm sure he'll have beef with everyone else too, but the same old "TODD IS HERE FOR REVENGE AGAINST WHICHEVER OF HIS LOVE INTERESTS YOU DON'T LIKE" act is boring. It's just misogyny, and there's enough of it on the rest of ABC Daytime - OLTL included - that I don't need Todd back after eight years playing into it when his double has been doing a great job of topping him in that department for years. Yes, he has to be a better man - because TSJ's Todd is a sociopath.

Edited August 5, 201114 yr by Vee

Maybe because he was locked up and had memory loss that vengeance hasn't risen to the surface? Are people asking for too much too soon?

I expected vengeance first, MontyB. If there is one characteristic that is Real Todd, is his thirst to make everyone who hurts him pay. His first gut instinct is REVENGE then he opens up emotionally.

As for being too early, he's been back for two months. He should have beaten the crap out of Baker, and tortured him with lighters, or acted more enraged. He's just acting like a sad victim heroic John has to save. How utterly disappointing.

No, Todd's first gut instinct was only REVENGE whenever people wrote the same bad stories for him over and over and over.

Todd has been on the loose, he's attacked people, he's killed a man, he's run around town creeping about kidnapping people, infiltrating residences, battering people, and making plans - that's all Todd - but he hasn't rehashed the same tired revenge plan on his loved ones again. That's called evolution. Expecting him to be a blindly raging arrested teenager again is boring. This guy is either pushing or over 40.

No, Todd's first gut instinct was only REVENGE whenever people wrote the same bad stories for him over and over and over.

Todd has been on the loose, he's attacked people, he's killed a man, he's run around town creeping about kidnapping people, infiltrating residences, battering people, and making plans - that's all Todd - but he hasn't rehashed the same tired revenge plan on his loved ones again. That's called evolution. Expecting him to be a blindly raging arrested teenager again is boring. This guy is either pushing or over 40.

RH turns 43 in September

As for being too early, he's been back for two months. He should have beaten the crap out of Baker, and tortured him with lighters, or acted more enraged. He's just acting like a sad victim heroic John has to save. How utterly disappointing.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I seriously want to see some evolution with this character. I feel like Todd has taken so many step backwards starting from the point where he pushed (accidentally pushed) Starr down the stairs. Something that "realTodd" would have never done.

I'm just going to let it play out before I pass judgment.

Fanbases mad because Todd is not living out some fanfic dream of raining rage down upon all the unbelievers do not interest me.

You have a reading comprehension issue as I actually addressed he should have gone for blood against Baker vs just casually leave him tied up. Nor would Todd be reduced to begging John for help. He'd have taken half the town hostage and forced a huge confrontation there. I had hopes when he pulled out the gun, he'd grab Tomas and TSJ and insist they spill ALL they knew right there. But ho hum, John stepped in and stopped the only sign of real rage and pro-active Todd I've seen.

It's just misogyny, and there's enough of it on the rest of ABC Daytime - OLTL included - that I don't need Todd back after eight years playing into it when his double has been doing a great job of topping him in that department for years. Yes, he has to be a better man - because TSJ's Todd is a sociopath.

TSJ's Todd is no more a sociopath than RH's 1993-98 Todd was. But fans playing pseudo-psychologist doesn't interest me anymore when it comes to Todd because his character has been rewritten so many times since 1993 there's no consistent characterization AT ALL.

As for misogyny? Funny you mention that I saw it a few pages back with Blair fans begging for OLTL to air clips of Todd punching Tea. Hmm...

You have a reading comprehension issue as I actually addressed he should have gone for blood against Baker vs just casually leave him tied up.

He already waxed Kent. Baker is needed alive for plot reasons, because they have to go after his superiors and he is a stalking horse who is played off of Todd, TSJ and Tomas - all of whom know him and are interacting with him.

Nor would Todd be reduced to begging John for help. He'd have taken half the town hostage and forced a huge confrontation there.

For what purpose? It was dumb the first time he did that, and it would be ridiculous now. What would taking half the town hostage over this accomplish other than endangering his family and his children all of whom were at that gala? And need I remind you that TSJ's Todd has worked with John many, many times.

TSJ's Todd is no more a sociopath than RH's 1993-98 Todd was.

No? Tell it to the air quotes. Or Gigi Morasco.

As for misogyny? Funny you mention that I saw it a few pages back with Blair fans begging for OLTL to air clips of Todd punching Tea. Hmm...

What does any of that have to do with me or what I am saying?

^^Vee, the last time RH praised the writing was 98 under the Labines. Ever since they left the writers have been sorely lacking.

Baker, the man who tortured him for 8 long years, didn't have a scratch on him. He was simply tied up which is utterly OOC as Todd should have tortured HIM for answers. We should have seen a big showdown with Baker under HIS power and RH calling the shots.

It's not evolution, it's called wimpifying the character into a Paul Ryan CLONE. But I am not surprised Todd LORD fans are eating it up, it's expected.

^^Vee, the last time RH praised the writing was 98 under the Labines. Ever since they left the writers have been sorely lacking.

Yeah, he looks miserable these days.

Baker, the man who tortured him for 8 long years, didn't have a scratch on him. He was simply tied up which is utterly OOC as Todd should have tortured HIM for answers. We should have seen a big showdown with Baker under HIS power and RH calling the shots.

You can always write the fanfic.

But I am not surprised Todd LORD fans are eating it up, it's expected.

You have no idea what I'm a fan of. I'm a fan of an evolving character who doesn't just retrace the same three steps again and again. It got stale under both actors. You want to talk about romanticizing a rapist and making him out to be some sort of Prince Charming? The Todd of the last three or four years has been rich, powerful, surrounded by adoring women and children, with all his enemies crushed or marginalized. He had multiple fairy tale weddings, he had a dream house, and all he had to do to get all of that was to rape the same woman twice, try to steal his grandchild and then laugh about it. TSJ's Todd is more Victor Lord than anything RH has ever played. It wouldn't matter which woman he was bedding - I would still find the character morally repugnant after what he did in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, you name it. The character did that, the writing did that, not the pairings. And he makes a great dark character, and I frankly don't want him leaving the show because I think he makes a great long-term rival for Todd. He's Todd to the nth degree, the uber-Todd. He is Victor Lord Jr. You want to keep falling back on a couple press clippings from fifteen years ago and some grainy YouTube clips of when Todd looked like Eddie Vedder. I'm talking about today.

Edited August 5, 201114 yr by Vee

He already waxed Kent. Baker is needed alive for plot reasons, because they have to go after his superiors and he is a stalking horse who is played off of Todd, TSJ and Tomas - all of whom know him and are interacting with him.

Oh puzlease, as he insisted he killed Kent in self-defensive not as any payback against those hurt him.

I get Baker must be left ALIVE but without a scratch on him and simply tied up was totally anti-climatic and totally OUT OF CHARACTER.

What would taking half the town hostage over this accomplish other than endangering his family and his children all of whom were at that gala? And need I remind you that TSJ's Todd has worked with John many, many times.

Since when does endangering his family ever stopped RH's Todd? Hell, it's more IN CHARACTER for him to come up with some crazy scheme that winds up endangering them.

And I need to remind you TSJ hasn't gone to John begging oh Obi Wan McBain, you're my only hope, please believe me.

No? Tell it to the air quotes. Or Gigi Morasco.

"get rid of IT" tops air quotes every damned day of the week.

What does any of that have to do with me or what I am saying?

It's called a very selective worry over misogyny.

The main reason I want to see more of the Todd/Tea scenes like the punch and Todd leaving her to die is because the show has papered over or told viewers to laugh at that stuff for years. I want to see it again in the context of this Todd. I never thought it was funny at the time and yet Todd/Tea are supposed to be some great romance.

I'd rather not see Todd with anyone - to me that would be the ideal scenario. Just let him focus on his kids. Maybe they could bring Rebecca back from the dead.

Edited August 5, 201114 yr by CarlD2

Maybe they could bring Rebecca back from the dead.

Ha Ha! She's not dead CarlD. They never found the body

tI get Baker must be left ALIVE but without a scratch on him and simply tied up was totally anti-climatic and totally OUT OF CHARACTER.

He wanted to get to the gala and confront TSJ and find his family. He didn't really have the time to go all Hostel.

Since when does endangering his family ever stopped RH's Todd? Hell, it's more IN CHARACTER for him to come up with some crazy scheme that winds up endangering them.

Yes, and those pointless, crazy schemes were old and stupid way before 2003. In fact, you were just decrying that kind of writing in that period.

And I need to remind you TSJ hasn't gone to John begging oh Obi Wan McBain, you're my only hope, please believe me.

I must've watched a different version of the show these last eight years, because they kept throwing those two together like they were starring in a revival of 48 Hours.

"get rid of IT" tops air quotes every damned day of the week.

You know, what he did to Jack was disgusting but that's really not addressing the issue which is that TSJ's Todd raped a woman and laughed about it.

It's called a very selective worry over misogyny.

You think I take glee in a woman being punched in the face? By virtue of my not policing a thread 24 hours a day? I don't even know which posts you're referring to.

If your definition of "Todd Manning" is simply a physically vengeful rageaholic who acts purely on impulse, we have a very different view of the character these last 18 years or so.

Edited August 5, 201114 yr by Vee