1 minute ago, Vee said:

Buck was so fine.

Yes, he was - and if anyone was ever going to join AMC as the long-lost Rob (formerly Bobby) Martin, I wanted it to be Brown.

3 hours ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

Yes but the Black Canvas B&E wrote on Loving was only because Debbi was the one that initiated it. Before Angie arrived in Corinth in 1993, the only Black character in Loving's 10 year history (1983 to 1993) was Minnie (Egypt nurse maid). 

Loving did not do anywhere near enough with black characters in the '80s, but Minnie was not the first black character on Loving. Art Hindman was recurring through the decade, and we also saw his kids, Dave and Tally. 

14 minutes ago, Khan said:

Y'know, ABCD COULD have made room for her on AMC.  Or they could've just said, "Sorry, gurl, ain't no room at THIS inn!  Try CBS!"

Instead, they stuck Debbi and Darnell on (NOT) LOVING (IT), a show nobody in charge had given two shits about since 1984.  A show so awful, its' own co-creator and original HW left after two years AND TOOK HIS DAMN NAME OFF THE SHOW.  That should tell you how much cache Debbi Morgan still had with ABCD at that time.

I have a feeling that if AMC had not already had a number of black characters at the time, they might have brought her back. 

Of course, many of those characters began filing out and/or were given poor material starting in 1994 (I remember Dondre Whitfield complaining about Mimi and Derek getting married in the Chicken Shack), which never improved (I think most of the material with Noah and Julia veers between boring and unwatchable, not to mention the desecration of Taylor as a character). In contrast, I think Loving, and to a lesser degree The City, had some genuinely good material for their black characters, rather than voodoo princesses and poor Leslie Uggams and Randy Brooks being stuck in something that felt vaguely lifted from 1972. 

4 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Loving did not do anywhere near enough with black characters in the '80s, but Minnie was not the first black character on Loving.

I still think that was supposed to be Lillian Hayman as Sadie Gray, based on the story that's come out since that Agnes supposedly tried to get both her and Ellen Holly/Carla on the show to keep them employed. She used LOV as a safe harbor for many favored actors, characters and concepts. In the case of Angie/Debbi and the Hubbards it worked. I wish it had for the Grays.

4 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

(I think most of the material with Noah and Julia veers between boring and unwatchable, not to mention the desecration of Taylor as a character)

To get back on topic, I will say I thought early Noah and Julia was great and both Sydney Penny and KHC were magnetic and raw. By the time they got to the voodoo stuff on the beach and the Disney princess wedding I, like Cobb, had lost interest. He was right that there was no way Noah would have a wedding like that.

Edited January 29Jan 29 by Vee

5 minutes ago, Vee said:

I still think that was supposed to be Lillian Hayman as Sadie Gray, based on the story that's come out since that Agnes supposedly tried to get both her and Ellen Holly/Carla on the show to keep them employed. She used LOV as a safe harbor for many favored actors, characters and concepts.

Too bad she didn't use LOVING to keep Richard Shoberg employed.   

I've got nothing good to say about Noah/Julia.  It was painful watching two actors who clearly hated each other try and pretend to be in love with each other on-screen.  (At least Kate Collins and James Kiberd were skillful enough to hide their mutual disgust, lol).

Edited January 29Jan 29 by Khan

Just now, Vee said:

I still think that was supposed to be Lillian Hayman as Sadie Gray, based on the story that's come out since that Agnes supposedly tried to get both her and Ellen Holly/Carla on the show to keep them employed. She used LOV as a safe harbor for many favored actors, characters and concepts. In the case of Angie/Debbi and the Hubbards it worked. I wish it had for the Grays.

Yes. I understand why they both said no, especially as Loving was a much smaller show and it would have been seen as a degradation. I am glad Debbi and then Darnell were willing to take the chance, and I think it paid off for them. 

Speaking of Lillian, I don't really understand why this is in her IMDB. Maybe they will delete it:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4426708/?ref_=nm_flmg_job_1_cdt_eps_tt_9

Sometimes I wish I could go through the various stories Jesse and Angie had in their first AMC run as some seem much better than others, not that that was exclusive to them (the "fake Jenny" for Greg was a terrible idea, whether it was meant to make him move on from her or not).

Just now, DRW50 said:

(the "fake Jenny" for Greg was a terrible idea, whether it was meant to make him move on from her or not).

I agree.  I think AMC wanted Greg to move on from Jenny much too quickly.  As a result, the story was received so negatively that I think it wound up impacting the rest of Laurence Lau's time on the show.

How many people's domineering parents turned out to be a secret kingpin on AMC in the '80s? Angie's? Brooke's? The list goes on.

16 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I remember Dondre Whitfield complaining about Mimi and Derek getting married in the Chicken Shack

Oh, good lord!

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

How many people's domineering parents turned out to be a secret kingpin on AMC in the '80s? Angie's? Brooke's? The list goes on.

Kent Bogard.

Edited January 29Jan 29 by Franko

7 minutes ago, Franko said:

Kent Bogard.

I always forget that Lars character was tied to him. I wonder if they had further plans for Kent or if he was always just meant to get killed by Erica. I know there were claims Godart and Lucci didn't get on.

10 minutes ago, Khan said:

I agree.  I think AMC wanted Greg to move on from Jenny much too quickly.  As a result, the story was received so negatively that I think it wound up impacting the rest of Laurence Lau's time on the show.

Weren't they also thinking of pairing Liza/Greg up again, maybe after the recasts? I can't remember.

That whole age set seemed to implode around 84/85.

Edited January 29Jan 29 by DRW50

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

I always forget that Lars character was tied to him. I wonder if they had further plans for Kent or if he was always just meant to get killed by Erica. I know there were claims Godart and Lucci didn't get on.

Good question!  They'd already recast Kent once.  Maybe TPTB had decided that the character wasn't worth recasting again.

It's a shame, though, because Lee Godart and Susan Lucci looked incredible together on-screen.  Of course, like Kelly Ripa said, Susan Lucci could share chemistry with a doorknob, lol.

As for the Greg/Jenny/Jesse/Angie/Liza/Tad/Amanda/Alfred set: I seem to recall reading somewhere that Marcy Walker's decision to join SANTA BARBARA was kind of a last-minute deal that might have caught AMC off-guard, as there had been expectations that would re-sign.  If she had stayed, then I do think they would've tried a Greg/Liza re-pairing, especially once Tad and Marian's affair had been exposed.

Also, IIRC, they never really tried to pair anyone with Greg after the story with Sheila went bust, leaving him kind of twisting in the wind until they attempted to pair him (now played by Jack Armstrong, I think?) with Robin McCall (who, I swear, was named after the lead character in "The Equalizer," but I digress, lol).  But, by that point, I think they just decided they were better off writing Greg out altogether and pairing Robin with either Tad or Matt Connolly instead.

It is wild to me that they had Jack Armstrong playing both Greg Nelson and (very awkwardly) Kevin Buchanan on OLTL ten years apart, lol. Kevin was a tiny child in the '80s.

Edited January 29Jan 29 by Vee

10 minutes ago, Vee said:

It is wild to me that they had Jack Armstrong playing both Greg Nelson and (very awkwardly) Kevin Buchanan on OLTL ten years apart, lol. Kevin was a tiny child in the '80s.

I haven't seen Armstrong lately.  Maybe he could be GH's new Spencer Cassadine?

 

Does anyone remember who played Congressman Matthew Callaway? I've tried to look it up, but there is no info anywhere.

He was Edmund's opponent in the US House election and backed by Adam. Callaway even tried to kill Edmund once with a car bomb.

 

13 hours ago, Khan said:

Y'know, ABCD COULD have made room for her on AMC.  Or they could've just said, "Sorry, gurl, ain't no room at THIS inn!  Try CBS!"

Instead, they stuck Debbi and Darnell on (NOT) LOVING (IT), a show nobody in charge had given two shits about since 1984.  A show so awful, its' own co-creator and original HW left after two years AND TOOK HIS DAMN NAME OFF THE SHOW.  That should tell you how much cache Debbi Morgan still had with ABCD at that time.

Angie had more focus and attention on Loving during her time there then she would have on AMC at the time.  God knows what McTavish would have subjected her to during that era.

She had two strong relationships with Charles and Jacob, a good friendship with Stacy and Jeremy, explored her relationship with her son Frankie, and I think we even had her mom Pat come for visits as well.

It makes me wonder if that same treatment would have been given to Ellen Holly back in the 80s when Agnes wanted to bring Carla and Sadie over to Loving?

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

Angie had more focus and attention on Loving during her time there then she would have on AMC at the time.  God knows what McTavish would have subjected her to during that era.

She had two strong relationships with Charles and Jacob, a good friendship with Stacy and Jeremy, explored her relationship with her son Frankie, and I think we even had her mom Pat come for visits as well.

It makes me wonder if that same treatment would have been given to Ellen Holly back in the 80s when Agnes wanted to bring Carla and Sadie over to Loving?

Is there any proof that Mulcahey took himself off of the credits, as co-creator? What I'd always seen was that after he left, Agnes had his name removed from the credits as co-creator. Just be great to know which it was. And, of course, if anyone ever knows what happened between the two friends & colleagues, please share the knowledge.