Seeing how Angie/Jessie are getting a bb swap s/l and Jessie actually has gotten away w/ murder, I doubt race plays anything anymore. We have latino no-heat w/ Kendall, Cara the spicy exciting hot mexicana who is in the Martins life, and they were actually focusing on the Hubbards in this s/l. I think people forget, it's a soap..it's like you're reading a book only watching it happen. If the story is gripping, and entertaining, that's the whole f'n point. My issue is when the s/l makes no sense for the character and when it just drags down the show. And that's not what this s/l does to the Hubbards, this s/l is material that focuses on them. Makes you relate to Angie/Jessie's story.

Edited April 1, 201114 yr by Clear Drama

Jesse didn't rip that baby out of the Chandler maids womb and give it Angie. I fail to see how this is character assasination of Jesse. Jesse, the chief of police taking orders from Ryan and bending the law for the hell of it was character assasination, not this. IMO this storyline is giving Jesse his humanity back instead of the caricature chief Wiggum act he's been doing for the last 2 years.

+1

I have loved Jesse this entire week and I have not been able to say that for a long time. I loved Jesse back in the day and it has made me sad to watch Jesse become a caricature also. Yes, Jesse did something wrong. But it doesn't compare to Babe as much as some think IMO.

This story is going to eventually include Tad, the Chandlers, and Asher, too. It would be soapy to have say JR and/or Bianca discover the truth somehow and that make wounds from the last babyswitch come forth. I bet eventually Maya wants the baby back and Colby asks JR to see what he can do.

It's the first real s/l I actually like w/ this staff. It doesn't frustrate me, it makes me want to watch, what happens next w/ the Hubbards and PLEASE be a good actor *crosses fingers*

I'm not sure I see the racial issue.

Not wanting to see it is more like it.

Their being AA didn't matter.

Actually their being AA DID matter.

It was one of the first time Daytime wrote minority characters AS minority characters as well as like everyone else.

Their Blackness wasn't ignored to make White People feel safe like it is now.

Race never really played a role.

Race played a role from Day 1.

It's the reason Jesse ended up with Angie instead of Jenny, it's why Opal didn't like Jesse, it's why Liza got away with blaming Jesse for rape & why Les didn't want Angie with Jesse.

The audience didn't accept Angie & Jesse BECAUSE of their Blackness or in spite of their Blackness but because they were Jesse & Angie.

Only for them to return to AMC & be continually character assassinated while the audience eagerly accepts it because they prefer the existing racist paradigm of Daytime & their own bigotry than deal with the real issues.

I don't see how this is any different.

This is totally different in that AMC is setting the Minority Man (Jesse) up to take the fall (as usual) while the Black Woman (Angie) plays pseudo Mammy role to the rest of the town.

They're acting out a variation of a story that has been done countless times by white characters on soaps.

No they're not.

If it were such a popular story as you assert it would've been given to other supercouples over time but it hasn't.

Bo & Hope celebrated TOGETHER. Luke & Laura celebrated TOGETHER. Viki & Clint celebrated TOGETHER.

None of them were forced to give their "soulmate" a dead baby.

The audience grieved & celebrated with them as a UNIT instead of eagerly waiting for them to "be punished".

The fact is that they needed to give Jesse and Angie a buzzworthy, high stakes, soapy story that would cause inevitably cause family conflict

Keep justifying.

It makes AMC's impending cancellation that much better.

I still am concerned like I had mentioned in the spoiler thread what they might end up doing to Jesse in this storyline. And how what lengths they might have his character go to to keep this secret. I think it makes sense to predict this storyline won’t end well for him, and that will end up being a poorly written storyline. I could see it getting to a point to where Jesse appears to be less sympathetic to a lot of viewers including some of the people that feel sympathy for him now.

Especially if he becomes more calculating in the decisions he makes to keep this secret. Right now he’s driven by fear, stress and is doing things more spur of the moment, but I could see him start being more calculating with the decisions he makes to keep this secret, and I could see that really hurting him. I could see him becoming a lot more calculating and going to some great and pretty bad lengths to keep this secret, damaging his character more in the process.

I don’t have to look further than the storylines with Madison keeping the secret of her baby’s paternity and Cara constantly lying to Jake, to know that K&S don’t do secret keeping storylines ( or really any storyline well.) I thought that Madison’s reasons for keeping the secret of her baby’s paternity were reasons that didn’t really make a lot of sense and weren’t even “soapy” or dramatic. (She wanted to keep the baby to herself, and her thinking thought that Ryan was a good man/father, but didn’t want him to be a father to their child, was a head scratcher.

She kept lying to Ryan even after he told her he “understood” why she might be lying to him about the baby’s paternity, and gave her a chance to come clean. But she kept lying to him for reasons that didn’t really make sense.

Cara lied, lied and lied some more to Jake, and kept changing her reasons for leaving him, which I thought was ridiculous. And then there is K&S turning Ricky/Diane into Boris and Natasha, and having them plot, scheme, including in public places, and some people view Kendall as a Dunce in the process.

I could see K&S really messing this storyline with Jesse/Angie up. I could see them doing a lot more damage to Jesse’s character, by having him become really calculating and going to some pretty bad lengths to keep this secret. Plus they could have Angie be duped for a long while, like they are having Kendall be duped, to the point to where people will start to talk about how they are “dumbing” down Angie.

I could definitely see people saying eventually how Angie should know better, even if she will get feelings here and there that something isn’t quite right. I could see the writers keeping her in the dark literally and figuratively for a while in this storyline, even when Jesse starts doing things that she should definitely sense aren’t right.

Pretty much!

Edited April 1, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

I'm tempted to watch... to see what the excitement's all about...

But I detest Darnell's "acting" and this sounds like he's got every reason to... "act."

Kate Hall wrote a beautiful script from start to finish. Even the medical stuff Cara was explaining to Angie made sense. Usually I'm like "WTH are they talking about?" in those situations but it was written so clearly & easily, I completely understood why Angie lost baby Ellie and I appreciate the show for explaining. I'm glad it seems like some real thought was put into all of this.

Love seeing Natalia on screen again and loved hearing her say she has more reason to make more "visits". Ugh maybe I'm being gullible here but I actually believed her & think we'll see more of Shannon Kane (& not in long increments). There's something about Cornelius Smith Jr., the way he portrays Frankie just makes me smile! He is great. Denise Vasi (I am LOL & Clear Drama calling her "Denise Vaseline" in this thread, was that a mistake?) kind of seemed to just be "there" in the hospital scenes today...

Greenlee to Kendall: "You just seem like you. I havent seen this Kendall in a long time. Did Dr. Castillo do this?"

YES! Thats exactly what Ive been saying. Kendall finally feels like Kendall and she's changed for the better since Griffin entered her picture. Im glad someone else is notcing it

I am so glad we agree again about Kendall, I cheered when Greenlee said that cause it was so true! Kendall really does seem like herself again. I love it.

I am really enjoying Griff and Kendall. I worry Zach will be back eventually to ruin it.

I'm enjoying them to. They are hastily roping me in. Their scenes at ConFusion today were fantastic.

As for Zach, I really really like him, but I just do not want him back anymore. Basically, I'm over him & I think Kendall is a lot better w/out him.

I like this new girl.

She's great, I like her to. She has such raw talent, IMO...wonder how she'll be once things subside a little bit and before we know it she'll be living in the Chandler Mansion. I knew that the minute Asher gave her JR's card, LOL. Anyway, I continue to look forward to more of this girl...

Trent Garrett continues to suck.

I'm tempted to watch... to see what the excitement's all about...

But I detest Darnell's "acting" and this sounds like he's got every reason to... "act."

Yes, watch it! And maybe Wednesday's ep to (if you're in a really good mood cause it was written by you know who ;-P)

Yes, watch it! And maybe Wednesday's ep to (if you're in a really good mood cause it was written by you know who ;-P)

Well, I'm definitely not in a good enough mood to deal with Ms. Taylor, so I'll bypass that episode. I'm sure in her blatant and failed attempt to be "edgy," she had at least one character say "ass." But if this is a Kate Hall scripted episode, hopefully the characters won't sound like nails on a chalkboard.

Well, I'm definitely not in a good enough mood to deal with Ms. Taylor, so I'll bypass that episode. I'm sure in her blatant and failed attempt to be "edgy," she had at least one character say "ass." But if this is a Kate Hall scripted episode, hopefully the characters won't sound like nails on a chalkboard.

I'll give you a heads up. It wasn't great, the whole epi. but what they wrote the past 2 days was more what the soap opera genre was about. The twist and turns, and emotion. Everything except for that red headed pain in the ass that David procreated w/ Kwak.

She's great, I like her to. She has such raw talent, IMO...wonder how she'll be once things subside a little bit and before we know it she'll be living in the Chandler Mansion. I knew that the minute Asher gave her JR's card, LOL. Anyway, I continue to look forward to more of this girl...

Trent Garrett continues to suck.

I'm not gonna label her great. But yes she needs to be written to talk to JR not Asher. For that character's own good.

It's less visible, but still there.

It's soapy from what I hear. I just want Jessie to have some somewhat dues to pay at the end of it.

Is this a bad thing? I think AMC needs more soapiness lately.

No it's not a bad thing. B/c that's what is sorta missing, seperating the RL, have RL situations, but remember it's a soap.

I loved the episode. Deedee, I do agree with you that what was great about Angie and Jesse were they were universal AND black--so I think I get what you're saying but I don't with this storyline. At all. It's about time they gave Angie and Jesse a dramatic, soap, storyline--one that so far is being played out way better tyhan Pratt's mess with Jesse'ss secret wife. If you think this is an example of racism in soaps then you prob objected to a lot of Jesse and Angie stories (I mean having her dad who happened to be black be a criminal and a baby peddler??) I think you're grasping in this case, though I usually agree with you on these issues.

It's a classic soap storyline and it's powerful because it's done using two characters audiences have a history with and a hell of a lot of affection for.

Edited April 1, 201114 yr by EricMontreal22

You don't see any hate BECAUSE it's early in the story.

But like any other "story" that includes minority characters they're built up into something they will NEVER be ("Fradison" being a perfect example) then taken out on the characters & actors instead of the writers when viewer fanfiction doesn't happen.

I understand why you've lost faith in them being able to deal with a minority story any other way, but I think you're jumping the gun. They've gone out of their way--more in fact than often they do with these stories--to make it clear why Jesse did what he did and to keep him completely sympathetic with audiences. I don't see the town turning against him at all--in fact I wouldn't be surprised if much of the town fights to let them keep the baby if the story does go in the direction of the babymommy wanting her back I'd actually bet money on that.

(And Jesse was barely "punished" for his other wife... I'm not sure where with these characters your complaint really comes from).

No it's not a bad thing. B/c that's what is sorta missing, seperating the RL, have RL situations, but remember it's a soap.

Ha sorry I misread you! We agree for once

Why not?

AMC's been a disaster the past few years & viewers have been highly unwilling to side with Jesse since his return.

Yet viewers have already started issuing consequences for the babyswitch (Jesse MUST lose his badge) as if a dead child isn't punishment enough.

And again of course he's going to be sympathetic NOW cause it's still early 6 months down the line?

Not so much.

SOME viewers here have but people have said the same about Tad for eons (granted what he did was IMHO worse than what Jesse has done). Still, even with stories like his secret wife, covering up a murder for Randi, most fans still seem to love Jesse--even with complaints of Darnell's acting. I really don't see where you're coming from in this case.

Not when a show has predictable writers.......

By that theory it's even less likely Jesse will get in any trouble from this, since he hasn't for any thing in the past that was against the law he may have done. Good point

I do have one little petpeeve on that Jesse/Angie s/l, did Brot really just bury that bb is if it was some dead mutt? Damn I mean Angie is gonna be pissed when she finds that out. Not even a tombstone.

Edited April 1, 201114 yr by Clear Drama

...Yet all of them are still on the show, still liked by the fans & still invested in by the writers.

Your example of someone being off a show for doing far less than a white character still on was OLTL, a show that has had a lot of problem with minorities for a long time now, and you compared Greg--a character no one much liked from the start, who was never given ANY depth or faith by the writers, with Todd a character that inexplicably is on 24/7. AMC seems to know that they have a very popular couple with Angie and Jesse and while they haven't focused on them as much as I'd like--we still see them more than nearly any other minority couple on a soap right now, and they've quickly become the "go to" dependable couple on the show. It's about time they get a key story that shakes them up but, I suspect and hope, ultimately makes them stronger and one that they can play out as a couple (ie not a secret affair, etc).