All that "controversial ordeal" about Brenda Dickson getting fired in 1987 --- I always figured it was a combination of EVERYBODY telling the truth about what happened (even Brenda Dickson herself).

Yes, her performance had become extremely hammy to the point it was sometimes laughable. I never had any problem at all with how she played the character. She was completely over-the-top and camp, but after all, Jill had recently divorced John Abbott and taken 20% of Jabot, and for the first time in her life, Jill thought she was on equal footing with Kay Chancellor. Brenda Dickson evidently interpreted that to mean Jill would affect a pseudo-British accent, wiggle her hips more, jiggle her breasts more, and stare haughtily into the distance while speaking to people she looked down on, which was practically everyone in Genoa City. Except Brad Carlton, lol.

We know that certain actors on the show didn't much care for her (Jerry Douglas comes to mind immediately). We also know that Brenda Dickson had purchased a Mercedes with a personalized license plate that said "JILL" on it. She seemed to sometimes have difficulty "coming down" from her campy performance, and she evidently sashayed around at times believing she was Jill Abbott instead of Brenda Dickson.

We also know that Melody Thomas had married producer Edward Scott in 1985 and had transitioned from being a "Tier Three" character in the late 1970s to an important young ingenue by 1982. After marrying Ed Scott, she probably had a bit more input into the producer's ear. From what Miss Dickson has claimed, the "West Coast producers" filed reports about on-set activities with the Chicago-based writer (Bill Bell) that Miss Dickson didn't believe were completely accurate.

Clearly, Ed Scott & Tom Langan had developed certain ideas about how Miss Dickson should be playing her character (and behaving in the studio) that differed from Miss Dickson's theatrical interpretation. Bill Bell might've also been frustrated with how extremely campy she'd gotten. And some of her castmates were also outdone with her antics.

It was all the perfect storm for her to get fired, and I doubt she helped her case any by announcing she would dictate when she would work and when she wouldn't work. (And Bill Bell wasn't helping by writing into 4 out of every 5 episodes.) I wasn't the least bit surprised when she was shown out the door. And I also suspected everyone who spoke about the matter was telling what they believed to be a truthful account of what happened.

Of course the coup de grace was when she filed her $10 million lawsuit against SONY for her dismissal. That pretty much closed the door on her ever returning to Y&R, and it also caused other producers on other shows to view her as a trouble-maker who wasn't worth hiring. It was all a shame.

As we have seen in later years, Brenda seems to be struggling with mental health issues. Perhaps it all began in the mid 80's as evidenced by the change in her acting style and the on set issues.

Moving on to one of Y&R's most controversial stories of the 70's. Despite what's stated in the article, there was backlash and it was quickly wrapped up. Wonder where Bill Bell would have taken it, if it had continued?

May 1 1977

The Soap Report A ‘Restless’ Controversy by Jon Michel Reed

A day without a smidgen of sexual strife and sin in the soap opera world is like a day without sunshine. But Anita Bryant, who’s waging a war against homosexuals in Florida, would choke on her orange rinds if she knew what was going on in Genoa City on “The Young and The Restless.” There’s this alcoholic rich widow, Kay Chancellor, you see, who hired chubby waitress Joann Curtzynski to be her live-in companion. Joann was going through a lot of grief after being dumped and divorced by her husband. Jack, who married a slimmer young lady. The two lonely ladies overcame their sorrows together. Joann helped Kay lay off the booze. Kay encouraged Joann to lay off the calories. She also financed a beautifying program for the former fatty.

DURING THIS process of living and sharing together, Kay developed what they used to call an 'unhealthy” interest in her live-in companion. Kay’s eagle-eyed son Brock was the first to become aware and wary of the relationship. He warned Joann about becoming too dependent on Kay. “I’d never take advantage of your mother or her wealth,” said Joann, who missed the point. “We have something together that money can’t buy. She’s given me love and companionship.” Kay was not as oblivious as Joann when Brock accused her of “trying to be Jack’s replacement for Joann.” “She cares for me in a way she never could for ‘that* man,” answered Kay. “That man? Or any man?” retorted Brock. “Hasn’t it gone beyond friendship?”

IT CERTAINLY had, what with references to sharing sleeping quarters for loneliness’ sake, comforting embraces, longingly wistful stares and restrained holding - back - of - hands - upon - hair. Should “Y&R” audiences be prepared for explicit scenes that would make maidens blush? After all, this type of story has been done in graphic detail on “Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman.” But it’s not the stuff that daytime soap operas are made of. Although it’s implicit what’s going on in the Chancellor mansion, the “Y&R" folks insists they’re not telling “that” kind of story. Jeanne Cooper, who plays Kay, explains, “It’s a story of two people who are very lonely. They just happen to be women sharing the experience of healing their hurts. When people have been hurt, they tend to look for anything to fill the void. These are two vulnerable women who have a psychological attraction and dependency on each other. Kay is desperate to hold onto Joann as the only friend she’s ever had. And Jack is a threat to the end of that relationship.

"EVERYONE connected with the show has worked not to hit the audience with a heavy trip by implying sexual motives for the women’s actions. We’re not telling a homosexual story. We’re telling a tale of two people who need each other psychologically, not physically. Both of them would jump at a chance with a man, because they are not lesbians.

The response from the audience has been positive and encouraging. I receive letters from ministers and women who say it’s an inspirational story. They understand the situation, the needs and the loneliness. Any other suggestive implications are strictly in the eye of the beholder,” Jeanne concludes. ‘‘Y&R” is indeed unraveling an unprecedentedfor-daytime situation with tender cautious care. It’s so poignantly told and subtle that Anita Bryant would undoubtedly approve.

"STILL, AS Brock asked Kay, “Do you realize where this relationship could lead?”

Bill Bell really did believe in pushing the envelope in the 70's. That article above seems to be Coope doing damage control due to audience backlash.

I remember reading somewhere that there were scenes when Katherine was drinking, she flirted with Jill circa 1974. I don't know if there was any truth in that, but it would not be all that surprising since Bell decided to go there with Joanne.

When Leslie was in the mental institution in 1974 one of her roommates came onto her and wanted to shower together. Those scenes surfaced a few years ago courtesy of Janice Lynde. When Bell "redone" that story circa 1986 with Ashley, I don't remember any of the roommates coming onto her in a sexual way. The women all had the same names, so I assume Bell wanted to imply they were the same women that was housed with Leslie years prior. I remember my mom commenting on it at the time.

3 hours ago, Broderick said:

All that "controversial ordeal" about Brenda Dickson getting fired in 1987 --- I always figured it was a combination of EVERYBODY telling the truth about what happened (even Brenda Dickson herself).

Yes, her performance had become extremely hammy to the point it was sometimes laughable. I never had any problem at all with how she played the character. She was completely over-the-top and camp, but after all, Jill had recently divorced John Abbott and taken 20% of Jabot, and for the first time in her life, Jill thought she was on equal footing with Kay Chancellor. Brenda Dickson evidently interpreted that to mean Jill would affect a pseudo-British accent, wiggle her hips more, jiggle her breasts more, and stare haughtily into the distance while speaking to people she looked down on, which was practically everyone in Genoa City. Except Brad Carlton, lol.

We know that certain actors on the show didn't much care for her (Jerry Douglas comes to mind immediately). We also know that Brenda Dickson had purchased a Mercedes with a personalized license plate that said "JILL" on it. She seemed to sometimes have difficulty "coming down" from her campy performance, and she evidently sashayed around at times believing she was Jill Abbott instead of Brenda Dickson.

We also know that Melody Thomas had married producer Edward Scott in 1985 and had transitioned from being a "Tier Three" character in the late 1970s to an important young ingenue by 1982. After marrying Ed Scott, she probably had a bit more input into the producer's ear. From what Miss Dickson has claimed, the "West Coast producers" filed reports about on-set activities with the Chicago-based writer (Bill Bell) that Miss Dickson didn't believe were completely accurate.

Clearly, Ed Scott & Tom Langan had developed certain ideas about how Miss Dickson should be playing her character (and behaving in the studio) that differed from Miss Dickson's theatrical interpretation. Bill Bell might've also been frustrated with how extremely campy she'd gotten. And some of her castmates were also outdone with her antics.

It was all the perfect storm for her to get fired, and I doubt she helped her case any by announcing she would dictate when she would work and when she wouldn't work. (And Bill Bell wasn't helping by writing into 4 out of every 5 episodes.) I wasn't the least bit surprised when she was shown out the door. And I also suspected everyone who spoke about the matter was telling what they believed to be a truthful account of what happened.

Of course the coup de grace was when she filed her $10 million lawsuit against SONY for her dismissal. That pretty much closed the door on her ever returning to Y&R, and it also caused other producers on other shows to view her as a trouble-maker who wasn't worth hiring. It was all a shame.

The sad thing I wonder about though , is if any male soap stars that behaved like Brenda on and off set, would have probably just gotten a free pass and not basically blacklisted like she did?

32 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

The sad thing I wonder about though , is if any male soap stars that behaved like Brenda on and off set, would have probably just gotten a free pass and not basically blacklisted like she did?

Remember the deal with Peter Bergman & Eric Braeden and their little fisticuffs incident in the early 1990s? My understanding is that they were gonna get the axe from Y&R if they didn't kiss and make-up. Well, obviously if they HAD gotten the axe, they would've both gotten other offers due to their popularity at the time.

BUT if they'd been fired and one of them had filed a $10 million termination suit against SONY, I doubt any other producer would've touched the plaintiff with a 10-foot pole. (I've always felt that Miss Dickson cooked her own goose career-wise by filing suit. She scared off any potential offers with that. If she'd gone away quietly, you know someone else would've hired her, especially considering that she looked even better than she had looked eleven and one-half years earlier 😅)

You know, I've always wondered who, if anyone, would Bill Bell have fired, had Bergman & Braeden not come to some sort of understanding. My gut says Bergman would've been the one to go, but maybe not? Maybe, like you've mentioned, @Broderick , Bell would've fired them both.

44 minutes ago, Broderick said:

Remember the deal with Peter Bergman & Eric Braeden and their little fisticuffs incident in the early 1990s? My understanding is that they were gonna get the axe from Y&R if they didn't kiss and make-up. Well, obviously if they HAD gotten the axe, they would've both gotten other offers due to their popularity at the time.

BUT if they'd been fired and one of them had filed a $10 million termination suit against SONY, I doubt any other producer would've touched the plaintiff with a 10-foot pole. (I've always felt that Miss Dickson cooked her own goose career-wise by filing suit. She scared off any potential offers with that. If she'd gone away quietly, you know someone else would've hired her, especially considering that she looked even better than she had looked eleven and one-half years earlier 😅)

I know a lot of people are tired of Victor these days, but it definitely would have really hurt to lose Braeden during that time. Bergman would have probably gotten back on AMC, or maybe GH would have had a role for him?

What's done is done RE: Brenda, but it's a shame because any soap would have been happy to have her. I swear Bill Bell was willing to make amends and wanted her to come on B&B as Sally, but that was probably just a big rumor?

There was a rumor that Brenda was up for the role of Maria Roberts on OLTL that went to BarBara Luna.

The Brenda situation v Peter/Eric are totally different IMO. Brenda had been disruptive, claiming illness etc and we could see her performances were eccentric. She was costing them money.

Peter and Eric had a personal beef and I don't believe production was interrupted. Firing either of them was not on the cards unless they refused to come to some sort of peace, which they were smart enough to do, for professional and personal reasons.

27 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

The sad thing I wonder about though , is if any male soap stars that behaved like Brenda on and off set, would have probably just gotten a free pass and not basically blacklisted like she did?

Haha that is an interesting question but there is some precedent in soap land and even Y&R for that matter.

Probably the most interesting case had to one time very popular leading man George Reinholt of that era to be blacklisted due to his behavior on the set. Then there was the case of that guy who played Warren Andrews on GL…. @DRW50 correct me if I’m wrong.

And as @Broderick @Khan @Paul Raven mentioned, there’s good reason why EB and PB still worked but yet were definitely in the second tier and doghouse from 94-early 97. As someone once explained me, Bell decided to “show the two men who real diva of the show was!”

Brenda as Sally sounds like fan fiction or someone’s fantasy honestly. This is the first time I’m hearing of it. Something tells me Bell only thought of Conley in mind, because I can totally see a Sally Spectra like character deviously annoying Vanessa Prentiss just because they could 🤣🤣🤣

Imagine behind the scenes if Brenda had been paired with George Reinholt on a soap.

In EB's book he acknowledged the beef w/ PB but didn't go into details. I got the impression EB was regretful of it.

This 1991 interview was before the fight and EB didn't seem to have any issues w/ PB.

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

She was costing them money.

And Miss Dickson flat-out admitted that. (Wasn't it a behind-the-scenes special on Entertainment TV, or something?) She basically said, "I don't know what the big deal was. We could've easily come in the following Saturday and shot my scenes." Yeah, right, bring the director, the entire light and sound crew, all the camera guys, all the stage hands, hair and makeup, everyone else to the studio on a Saturday to shoot her scenes because she pitched a tantrum Friday afternoon. It would've cost SONY and Bell Dramatic Serial Co thousands & thousands of dollars to do that. But she didn't care; she didn't think it was a problem at all.

And y'all remember what pandemonium it was that summer. One day you'd hear the voiceover, "The role of Jill Abbott is being played today by Deborah Adair." The next day, Miss Dickson would return, giving one of the most bizarre performances of her career. Then Jill might have a day off, and then the next day, "The role of Jill Abbott is being played today by Deborah Adair." Then Miss Dickson would return the following day, weirder than ever. Until finally, that fateful day -- "The role of Jill Abbott is NOW being played by Jess Walton." I remember us laughing about it at my house for the two or three weeks that it was occurring, until finally the sobering realization hit -- they've actually kicked her ass out the door for good.

Obviously, the constant rescheduling, the hiring of replacements, the auditioning of a permanent actress to play the role --- ALL of that was costing them time & money.

Peter Bergman talked about his little tiff with Victor recently on some broadcast (was it that SOAPY podcast Greg Rikaart does?) What I gathered from it is that Bergman was a bit of a perfectionist, learning his lines verbatim, coming to work prepared to give a practiced, polished, rehearsed performance. Braeden, in contrast, was pretty much just winging it, getting the gist of the scene but "massaging" his dialogue pretty drastically, not sticking to the scripts very rigidly, and just "making the scene work" by saying & doing things he felt Victor would do under the circumstances -- which obviously worked-out fine to the TV audience but was probably fairly grueling for his costars.

And any of y'all who've ever acted before can see it from both Bergman & Braeden's point-of-view. If you're an actor who wants to stick to the script -- and you know your lines and everyone else's lines when you show up for rehearsal -- the worst thing you can encounter is an "improv" actor who barely even looked at his script the night before. And if you're a seat-of-the-pants improv-type actor, the most irritating thing you can encounter is a "script perfectionist" who pauses the rehearsal and announces, "YOU didn't give me the right cue! And you were supposed to CROSS BEHIND THE DESK on your THIRD line, NOT on your FIFTH line!" We've all been there & done that. And it can lead to a lot of tension. If it's a stage play, you quickly learn that you don't wanna deal with that particular actor in another show ever, but if it's a continuing television situation, you've just gotta work it out, which Jack and Victor evidently did eventually because they seem to respect each other now, although they probably both still have the same rehearsal/performance traits now that they had in the 1990s.

11 minutes ago, Broderick said:

And Miss Dickson flat-out admitted that. (Wasn't it a behind-the-scenes special on Entertainment TV, or something?) She basically said, "I don't know what the big deal was. We could've easily come in the following Saturday and shot my scenes." Yeah, right, bring the director, the entire light and sound crew, all the camera guys, all the stage hands, hair and makeup, everyone else to the studio on a Saturday to shoot her scenes because she pitched a tantrum Friday afternoon. It would've cost SONY and Bell Dramatic Serial Co thousands & thousands of dollars to do that. But she didn't care; she didn't think it was a problem at all.

And y'all remember what pandemonium it was that summer. One day you'd hear the voiceover, "The role of Jill Abbott is being played today by Deborah Adair." The next day, Miss Dickson would return, giving one of the most bizarre performances of her career. Then Jill might have a day off, and then the next day, "The role of Jill Abbott is being played today by Deborah Adair." Then Miss Dickson would return the following day, weirder than ever. Until finally, that fateful day -- "The role of Jill Abbott is NOW being played by Jess Walton." I remember us laughing about it at my house for the two or three weeks that it was occurring, until finally the sobering realization hit -- they've actually kicked her ass out the door for good.

Obviously, the constant rescheduling, the hiring of replacements, the auditioning of a permanent actress to play the role --- ALL of that was costing them time & money.

Peter Bergman talked about his little tiff with Victor recently on some broadcast (was it that SOAPY podcast Greg Rikaart does?) What I gathered from it is that Bergman was a bit of a perfectionist, learning his lines verbatim, coming to work prepared to give a practiced, polished, rehearsed performance. Braeden, in contrast, was pretty much just winging it, getting the gist of the scene but "massaging" his dialogue pretty drastically, not sticking to the scripts very rigidly, and just "making the scene work" by saying & doing things he felt Victor would do under the circumstances -- which obviously worked-out fine to the TV audience but was probably fairly grueling for his costars.

And any of y'all who've ever acted before can see it from both Bergman & Braeden's point-of-view. If you're an actor who wants to stick to the script -- and you know your lines and everyone else's lines when you show up for rehearsal -- the worst thing you can encounter is an "improv" actor who barely even looked at his script the night before. And if you're a seat-of-the-pants improv-type actor, the most irritating thing you can encounter is a "script perfectionist" who pauses the rehearsal and announces, "YOU didn't give me the right cue! And you were supposed to CROSS BEHIND THE DESK on your THIRD line, NOT on your FIFTH line!" We've all been there & done that. And it can lead to a lot of tension. If it's a stage play, you quickly learn that you don't wanna deal with that particular actor in another show ever, but if it's a continuing television situation, you've just gotta work it out, which Jack and Victor evidently did eventually because they seem to respect each other now, although they probably both still have the same rehearsal/performance traits now that they had in the 1990s.

Even Jeanne Cooper said she hated doing scenes with EB because he would always have Victor say the last word, (which of course he’s known for doing) Even if it’s not scripted for him to do so. She boosts about how she was able to “beat him” One time, because she walked out and said the line (not sure if it was improvised) and that would mean Victor saying something to an “empty seat”…..

personally I feel a lot of actors have gotten the last word over Victor many times then they think, though I guess the frustration comes from EB doing it unexpectedly when other actors think they should have gotten the last line in? Nowadays I think Braeden just sticks with whoever is suppose to have the last line, because most of the time A show ends with Victor or him saying the line it’s definitely more scripted sounding IMO

25 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

Jeanne Cooper boosts about how she was able to “beat him” One time, because she walked out and said the line (not sure if it was improvised) and that would mean Victor saying something to an “empty seat”…..

Melody Thomas thought one time that SHE had the last word. It was right after Nikki and Brad bought their way into Jabot circa 1999 or 2000. Nikki was in Victor's office, and he was lambasting her for "throwing away $30 million to join Jabot, when you're not qualified to hold any kind of job." Nikki said, "Well, when you decide you'd like to have a rational conversation about this, call me. In the meantime, here's my CARD!!" Melody Thomas flicked her new Jabot business card onto his desk and RAN for the door like her skirt was on fire, because she was determined to get the last line. Just before she slammed the door behind her, he mumbled, "Ummm-huh. Have a nice day, you hear." You could see the rage on her face 🤣

6 hours ago, Broderick said:

Melody Thomas thought one time that SHE had the last word. It was right after Nikki and Brad bought their way into Jabot circa 1999 or 2000. Nikki was in Victor's office, and he was lambasting her for "throwing away $30 million to join Jabot, when you're not qualified to hold any kind of job." Nikki said, "Well, when you decide you'd like to have a rational conversation about this, call me. In the meantime, here's my CARD!!" Melody Thomas flicked her new Jabot business card onto his desk and RAN for the door like her skirt was on fire, because she was determined to get the last line. Just before she slammed the door behind her, he mumbled, "Ummm-huh. Have a nice day, you hear." You could see the rage on her face 🤣

lol, didn’t he actually say “keep your damn card!!!” Or something like that as she walked out?? 😂😂 I can understand MTS frustration but She kind of set herself up for failure if the card flick wasn’t scripted….lol