On 2/29/2024 at 8:12 PM, Althea Davis said:

Guys how do you rate the seasons from 1999 till the end. What are the good ones and the stinkers...? I am asking... for a friend. Lol.

Like all shows, it had highs and lows. I think it was better than some would give it credit for. 

I think 2003/04 - 2007 were such a strong period.. 

1999 was so-so, 2000 was weird and a bit off, 2001-2002 were meh.. 2003 a bit better, 2008 was so-so. 2009-2010 was good and better than anything they put out these days on the surviving 4.

Were the 1993 Italy scenes filmed on location? ^-^

8 minutes ago, blueberrywaffle said:

Were the 1993 Italy scenes filmed on location? ^-^

Yes.

Question to veterans posters/viewers--Was Nancy truly as much as a judgmental nuisance as the summaries in the 40th anniversary book summarizes? Maybe because I hold Nancy in high regard, I could not picture her being such a thorn in many people's sides. But I guess that is what makes her so complex. 

I am used to Nancy being comforting, loving, and stern at times to all. I knew she had issues from Penny, but I didn't know she was so cold towards Don at times too. 

And Claire Lowell is an interesting character to read about too. She literally hated her own grandson, Dan, up until her death. 

God I wish a lot of these episodes were saved. 

1 hour ago, NothinButAttitude said:

Question to veterans posters/viewers--Was Nancy truly as much as a judgmental nuisance as the summaries in the 40th anniversary book summarizes? Maybe because I hold Nancy in high regard, I could not picture her being such a thorn in many people's sides. But I guess that is what makes her so complex. 

I am used to Nancy being comforting, loving, and stern at times to all. I knew she had issues from Penny, but I didn't know she was so cold towards Don at times too. 

And Claire Lowell is an interesting character to read about too. She literally hated her own grandson, Dan, up until her death. 

God I wish a lot of these episodes were saved. 

Actually, in ATWT's earlier years, Nancy was (or at least, could be when she was vexed) a bit of a pill. She used to light into Bob and harangue him a lot. If she did not like you, she'd make it very clear. When her son Donald got married to a woman named Janice Turner, of whom Nancy disapproved, Nancy sobbed loudly and obnoxiously throughout the ceremony. She always thought she was right. What made her redeemable, though, was that she was such a recognizable character; everyone in life knows or has known a woman like that. So we rolled our eyes and sighed and said, "Ohhhh, that's just Nancy!"

Plus, her love of, and loyalty to, her family was staunch and unquestionable.

Nancy only softened noticeably in the 1980s, when Douglas Marland wrote her and Chris Hughes back into the show.

BTW, many fans always regarded Bert Bauer on TGL as a warm and benevolent matriarchal figure, but in her earlier days, she was something of a shrew. Her husband, Bill, even slapped her once.

Both women came a long way as they got older.

Yes, a lot of the matriarchs/patriarchs mellowed with age. Papa Bauer was almost tyrannical in his early days. Judge Lowell was very controlling. Bert Bauer was materialistic, opportunistic and manipulative. Pa Hughes was stubborn and cranky. These are the shows I'm most familiar with but, on GL and ATWT, the matriarchs/patriarchs all mellowed with age and became the kind, supportive heads of the family. Chris Hughes was pretty even-keeled with his kind, albeit oblivious, nature throughout his run. 

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

Actually, in ATWT's earlier years, Nancy was (or at least, could be when she was vexed) a bit of a pill. She used to light into Bob and harangue him a lot. If she did not like you, she'd make it very clear. When her son Donald got married to a woman named Janice Turner, of whom Nancy disapproved, Nancy sobbed loudly and obnoxiously throughout the ceremony. She always thought she was right. What made her redeemable, though, was that she was such a recognizable character; everyone in life knows or has known a woman like that. So we rolled our eyes and sighed and said, "Ohhhh, that's just Nancy!"

Plus, her love of, and loyalty to, her family was staunch and unquestionable.

Nancy only softened noticeably in the 1980s, when Douglas Marland wrote her and Chris Hughes back into the show.

BTW, many fans always regarded Bert Bauer on TGL as a warm and benevolent matriarchal figure, but in her earlier days, she was something of a shrew. Her husband, Bill, even slapped her once.

Both women came a long way as they got older.

Your opinion on this was one I wanted to hear the most. 

I knew Bert was a pistol as I've seen some clips (via WOST and in the early YouTube days before P&G started removing stuff) of her in action. SN: Bringing up WOST, I miss that site so much. Talk about being ahead of your time.

I think because most of the clips I've seen of Nancy are from the 80s onwards or when I started watching as a child with my grandma and mom about '92, she was defanged. 

I've had the anniversary book for awhile, but something told me to just sit and really read it. I just thought Penny had a tumultuous relationship Nancy, which is normal. I just got done reading about Don/Janice the other night. And Don truly seemed to not put up with Nancy's antics and would move away when she infuriated him. 

I wasn't privy either to Nancy and Chris nearly getting divorced over the Amanda Holmes situation. 

But reading this book has made me realize that the final years of ATWT could've recaptured the audience if they just tapped into the show's history and recaptured the essence and simplicity of the original years of the show. They should've really tapped into Kim and Bob being the modern day Chris and Nancy and had Kim be a busybody to all her kids (not saying she wasn't). 

Also, I didn't know John had the hots for Susan back then. I knew about him taking a liking to her in the 80s, but I didn't know that it had predated that time. Now it all makes sense. Just goes to show how Marland tapped into everyone's history and used it properly.

I am now up to the part where Kim and Jennifer come into play on the show. 

47 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

Yes, a lot of the matriarchs/patriarchs mellowed with age. Papa Bauer was almost tyrannical in his early days. Judge Lowell was very controlling. Bert Bauer was materialistic, opportunistic and manipulative. Pa Hughes was stubborn and cranky. These are the shows I'm most familiar with but, on GL and ATWT, the matriarchs/patriarchs all mellowed with age and became the kind, supportive heads of the family. Chris Hughes was pretty even-keeled with his kind, albeit oblivious, nature throughout his run. 

They don't really portray Judge Lowell as being controlling in the summaries; however, I have noticed a trend that the Hughes and Stewarts do go to him to fix legal issues and use his power to pull strings. I do find it funny. And he stayed getting his poor daughter-in-law, Claire out of messes. I know Barbara Berjer had a field day playing Claire. She seemed like a hoot. Just reading, she seems like someone I'd be endeared to b/c she was such a tragic heroine. 

7 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

They don't really portray Judge Lowell as being controlling in the summaries; however, I have noticed a trend that the Hughes and Stewarts do go to him to fix legal issues and use his power to pull strings. I do find it funny. And he stayed getting his poor daughter-in-law, Claire out of messes. I know Barbara Berjer had a field day playing Claire. She seemed like a hoot. Just reading, she seems like someone I'd be endeared to b/c she was such a tragic heroine. 

Yeah, he pressured Ellen to give up her baby. He was very stuffy and always telling Jim and Claire how they should act. Granted, somebody needed to keep a reign on those two but he did it in a heavy-handed way. He wasn't all that likable in the beginning at all. Tragic is the best way to describe Claire. She was a fascinating mess.  I think Emily inherited her neurotic gene. 

8 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

Yeah, he pressured Ellen to give up her baby. He was very stuffy and always telling Jim and Claire how they should act. Granted, somebody needed to keep a reign on those two but he did it in a heavy-handed way. He wasn't all that likable in the beginning at all. Tragic is the best way to describe Claire. She was a fascinating mess.  I think Emily inherited her neurotic gene. 

Now that you brought that up (re: Emily), it makes sense now.

Keep in mind the times. In the 50's and 60's  soaps pushed the narrative that womens' fulfillment came through marriage and children. That was their domain and major concern. So the wellbeing of their children was paramount. Husbands seemed to have a lesser say but older male figures either folksy types like Pa Hughes and Papa Bauer or successful worldly types like Judge Lowell were to be revered.

 Women like Edith Hughes, Claire Cassen and Meta Bauer were less stable and cause for concern.

Although they often had way more interesting lives than the 'heroines'.

It gave women at home some vicarious pleasure to see women with agency(hate that term) but the overall  lesson was that true fulfillment came from being a wife and mother.

12 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Keep in mind the times. In the 50's and 60's  soaps pushed the narrative that womens' fulfillment came through marriage and children. That was their domain and major concern. So the wellbeing of their children was paramount. Husbands seemed to have a lesser say but older male figures either folksy types like Pa Hughes and Papa Bauer or successful worldly types like Judge Lowell were to be revered.

 Women like Edith Hughes, Claire Cassen and Meta Bauer were less stable and cause for concern.

Although they often had way more interesting lives than the 'heroines'.

It gave women at home some vicarious pleasure to see women with agency(hate that term) but the overall  lesson was that true fulfillment came from being a wife and mother.

Understood. But even then, I am drawn to the female characters even while reading. 

Ellen was a hot mess (sucks they reduced her to a domestic goddess in her later years). Penny appears to be feisty even though she was clearly the salt-of-the-earth character. Nancy wasn't so sweet... I think I am going to spend the next couple of days trying to find clips on YouTube from that era that I haven't watched. I spend so much time watching GL, AW, and ATWT from the 80s that I don't really pay attention to the black and white clips available. 

I am just really enjoying myself reading this book. I am going to really sit down and read AW and GL next. I've read sections--really skimmed over the anniversary books but never really took in the content. I have AMC, GH, OLTL, and Y&R anniversary books to delve into too. 

4 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Keep in mind the times. In the 50's and 60's  soaps pushed the narrative that womens' fulfillment came through marriage and children. That was their domain and major concern. So the wellbeing of their children was paramount. Husbands seemed to have a lesser say but older male figures either folksy types like Pa Hughes and Papa Bauer or successful worldly types like Judge Lowell were to be revered.

 Women like Edith Hughes, Claire Cassen and Meta Bauer were less stable and cause for concern.

Although they often had way more interesting lives than the 'heroines'.

It gave women at home some vicarious pleasure to see women with agency(hate that term) but the overall  lesson was that true fulfillment came from being a wife and mother.

There are so many interesting dynamics I wish we could see with the Hughes family in the '50s which seem to upend some of the usual tropes, like Nancy's bitterness toward Penny because of Susan's death, or how Grandpa sacrificing to make sure Chris got the education had a negative impact on his siblings which seemed to carry through the rest of their lives. The dynamics with Grandpa, who seems so calm and even-keeled, and Nancy or the family at large also interest me.

Edited March 4, 20242 yr by DRW50

5 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

I knew Bert was a pistol as I've seen some clips (via WOST and in the early YouTube days before P&G started removing stuff) of her in action. SN: Bringing up WOST, I miss that site so much. Talk about being ahead of your time.

Yep, our Bert was a pistol way back when. It's a real testament to Charita Bauer's skill that she could imbue Bert with so many layers throughout the decades, and never once play a false note. One of my favorite TGL episodes of all time is one in which Bert lambasts Ed for his attitude towards his father. She calls her son a "small man" and laments that it horrifies her to see it. Human drama at its finest; the type soaps used to do so well. (Although I adored her and would always champion her remaining on the show, I must admit that I found Helen Wagner to be a little...crusty, LOL.)

5 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

I think because most of the clips I've seen of Nancy are from the 80s onwards or when I started watching as a child with my grandma and mom about '92, she was defanged. 

I don't know what is still/currently available online, but many of the vintage B&W episodes of TGL and ATWT are well worth checking out. Once you start watching them, it's like you fall down a rabbit hole and can't stop yourself from devouring more.

You have been warned!

5 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

But reading this book has made me realize that the final years of ATWT could've recaptured the audience if they just tapped into the show's history and recaptured the essence and simplicity of the original years of the show. They should've really tapped into Kim and Bob being the modern day Chris and Nancy and had Kim be a busybody to all her kids (not saying she wasn't). 

I agree. Viewers of soaps, from what I've witnessed, tend to love and enjoy nods to history. 

I was no fan of Jean Passanante, but I will acknowledge that she did pay some attention to the vets towards the end of the series. More than Sheffer did. Even Lisa (!!!) got a few lines here and there!

5 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

Just goes to show how Marland tapped into everyone's history and used it properly.

Of all the scribes who assumed the reigns of established soaps, I truly respected a select few who were excellent at researching their new shows' histories in-depth and using the past effectively. Pat Falken Smith, Douglas Marland, Claire Labine and Agnes Nixon really shone in this regard.

5 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

Tragic is the best way to describe Claire. She was a fascinating mess.  I think Emily inherited her neurotic gene. 

Ohhh, good point.

4 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

It gave women at home some vicarious pleasure to see women with agency(hate that term) but the overall  lesson was that true fulfillment came from being a wife and mother.

The old stereotype about matrimony and motherhood being the end-all-be-all for women lasted a long, long time. When Bob was married to Jennifer Ryan, he told Nancy that Jennifer might be most fulfilled by being a wife, a mother, AND a career woman.

Nancy immediately pooh-poohed the very idea with a dismissive, "Oh, Bob! Whoever heard of such a thing?!?"

If only the soaps had kept some sort of through line that kept the history alive and linked the new with the old. 

If ATWT honored the Hughes and Lowell/Stewarts we would have seen Frannie and some children in the 2000s, Lisa's son Scott, the Ward quads, Kristina Hughes and others as major characters carrying on the legacy instead of being ignored or afterthoughts.