As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Paul Raven]

i think when Pheobe Dorin was brought in, the idea was to have the audience get used to her before having any big story.

 

But ratings were dropping. Joel Kane had been Irna's replacement before Winifred Wolfe took over. Maybe the feeling was that Rosemary was irreplaceable and Penny was written out. Irna returned in Jan 72 but I wonder if she was involved earlier and wanted Pheobe/Penny out?

[j swift]

Sorry for the simplicity of these questions in advance but:

 

I know Penny was Ellen's friend, so were they younger than Lisa?

 

Wasn't Marcy's Prince somehow related to Penny?

 

Was Penny involved in the London remote to find Sabrina (or was there any reference to Penny living in London in that story)?

[vetsoapfan]

 

The show tried to get an actress who resembled Prinz, and they colored Phoebe Dorin's hair to make her look more Penny-ish, but the recasting was not well received. Prinz was a HUGE daytime superstar, one of the most popular actresses in soaps, and her imprint on the role was indelible. I thought Dorin was a capable actress, but she lacked that indefinable "something" which Prinz had in spades. I was not surprised, when she left the show after a brief tenure. Some actors simply cannot be replaced, period.

[slick jones]

Lord Stewart Markham Cushing was the son of Paul Stewart and Lady Veronica Cushing.  He was Ellen's previously unknown grandson.

 

Penny was involved in the Frannie/Sabrina storyline. Frannie stayed with her during the search. Her husband Anton (Patrick Horgan) Cunningham and daughter Amy (Una Kim) were shown briefly during the story.

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by slick jones

[vetsoapfan]

 

Not to be picky, but being the son of Paul Stewart made Lord Cushing Ellen's STEP grandson, because Paul's parents were David Stewart and his first wife Betty.

 

(Not trying to be snarky, just wanted to clarify.)

[slick jones]

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That's it, our long standing friendship just bit it...... Haha. You are so correct. Did Ellen ever adopt him after Betty died? 

 

 

[vetsoapfan]

 

I do not believe Ellen formally adopted Paul, but if anyone remembers otherwise, please let us know. :)

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

They don't want to move on because they are having too much fun being unfriendly, piling on and bashing my posts.

 

Also I wonder if they can't handle some truths. I do think the woman with the geeky Sharon Case avatar uses the board as a platform for her racially motivated politics. When she said a black character became a rapist so a white writer could kill him off and not have a popular black couple on the show, THAT seemed bizarre. What about all the white characters who have been rapists on soaps over the years and were written out. Why wasn't anyone crying racism about that?

 

Then she says stories about women loving their rapists no longer occur on soaps. WRONG. In 2007 Days of Our Lives had E.J. DiMera rape Sami Brady, and he ended up marrying her twice. In an episode from just last month, Sami was going on about how E.J. was and will always be the love of her life. It's convenient for her to only state "facts" that allow her to play the race card or the feminist card...and to ignore all the other facts that expose her comments for what they really are, a flimsy attempt to play up victimization of black people. And why isn't she letting black men speak for themselves? She's the one who seems sanctimonious to me.

 

I feel empowered calling someone out on their racially motivated soap discussions. I got sick of it and took a stand. If she's going to keep going on about black representation, then I don't see why another person can't discuss pro-Aryan representation.

 

As for the others I consider myself smarter than them. So what if it's ego, I feel it's true. LOL

Edited December 5, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Love your post. Well worded!

[EricMontreal22]

 

Why aren't you letting black people speak for themselves, by that logic?  It was VERY clear from her post that she meant that stories about romantic relationships starting with rape are no longer tolerated the way they once were.  EJ and Sami may be a couple many people love, but there has also been pushback against them for this reason *from the start*--something that was rarely even thought about back in the 1970s (the true pushback about Luke and Laura didn't really happen until these issues started being discussed more in the 1980s).  Incidentally the same is true of romance novels--I'm not a romance reader, but reading a lot about the genre while studying and researching often denigrated popular and pulp forms of art and entertainment, particularly those that are often associated with women (ie soap operas), it was shocking to read about just how many romance stories--by some scholarly accounts surveying hundreds of titles including some that were and are extremely highly regarded like Kathleen Woodiwiss' The Flame and the Flower (which I did read, and even kinda enjoy, in an undergrad pulp fiction course), a good 80-90% of romance novels in the 1970s and early 1980s involved the "romanticized" idea of rape (ie tropes like that the hero was essentially good but he just wanted the heroine SOO much that he couldn't help himself--he later apologizes and they fall in love, etc).

 

 

*blink*  Oooh boy.  You sure you're not just a made up persona?  *wow*

 

...I rest my cast.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

I think you're in attack mode again. Why can't you allow a white person to weigh in on how whites are supposedly causing blacks to be misrepresented on soaps? The poster with the geeky Sharon Case photo opened this can of worms. She's been using this forum as a pulpit for months to spout a lot of nonsense about how white people have it in for black people and I was sick of her ridiculous comments going unchallenged.

[slick jones]

@DramatistDreamer  I've enjoyed your posts for years. Not only are many of them thought provoking, but you have always had a fantastic grasp of the genre.  Don't ever change, and keep posting !!!

 

 

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[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

That's a nice supportive post. I think her comments about characterization are very interesting, but when she goes off on those racist-related comments, I find her remarks extremely didactic. Some of it feels out of place on a soap board. It would be more appropriate in my opinion if we were talking about a storyline that was about race, like Lisa's problems with Jessica and Duncan. But to take a story about rape and label that as racist, it seems to me someone may be just trying to stir up trouble.

 

It seems obsessive for someone's whole approach and perhaps their whole life to be about race. Just like a gay man or lesbian making their whole life about their sexuality. No, people, there are other things that define you and there are other things that define soap characters and stories. Don't approach it so one-dimensional. Don't find hatred and persecution where there is none. Stop looking for villains where there are none. Set the individual hang-ups aside and look at the big picture more reasonably. That's what I'm saying. And I'm not going to feel wrong for saying it.

[Juliajms]

I can't tell if you are a troll or simply lacking all self awareness. You are so awful and clueless you actually said Jessica was too smart to be raped.  That only happens to stupid women right?

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  No one with any sense would care about your opinion of their posts or anything else.  Again, you are no one to tell anyone else what to post and certainly not DD who is a more interesting and long term poster than you.  You are not the arbiter of what is appropriate on this or any other thread.

[EricMontreal22]

I'm white.  I think I have every right to discuss the myriad reasons blacks and other minorities have often been under-represented, and poor represented on soaps.  That is NOT the issue people have with you.  I am not in attack mode.  If I were I wouldn't address you as Jarrod but rather call you by some stupid name reflective of your avatar, or whatever you're doing here with DramatistDreamer.  That shows you on the defense. 

For someone who claims to be smart, the very fact that you used the term "pro-Aryan" as you did, no matter *what* your intentions (look up any use of that term) shows a shocking lack of intelligence at the very least...

Edited December 5, 2018 by EricMontreal22