Queenie, is that you?

I'm not sure what the answer is supposed to be.

(And I know I just broke my promise to not participate in the Y&R debate, but what can I say? The posts here are always thought-provoking. Anyhoo, I'll leave you guys to it).

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Just because you aren't watching right now doesn't mean you can't put your 2 cents in when it comes to what you have seen. I have a sad feeling this thread would go from life support to sudden death if only people who watched everyday commented.

I'm not sure what the answer is supposed to be.

That would be a "No," then. Queenie was infamous on ratsc for her hatred of the Fishwins, especially Kevin. Since I hardly ever see her posting over there, I thought she might have surfaced here.

Edited April 27, 201015 yr by Jay

That would be a "No," then. Queenie was infamous on ratsc for her hatred of the Fishwins, especially Kevin. Since I hardly ever see her posting over there, I thought she might have surfaced here.

Oh. Sorry for the mixup there.

I didn't mind Kevin all that much until the chipmunk story. I still don't HATE him now, I just don't think he has any purpose on the show at this point, and I think that the show casts too many men now who are sort of similar to each other.

That would be a "No," then. Queenie was infamous on ratsc for her hatred of the Fishwins, especially Kevin. Since I hardly ever see her posting over there, I thought she might have surfaced here.

Rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs had died a double death....the soap quagmire that's killing the whole genre (shows, magazines, these discussion fora)...plus the demise of usenet itself (except, I guess, it's vestigial parts in google groups).

There were many interesting characters at ratsc, but even those who are still there have sworn off the show.

Honestly, on topic, for me "Ryder" has been the one redeemable aspect of this story. Not only because the writers keep signalling that he is "not on board" with the evil plan, but because Bethel makes that palpable with his portrayal, body language.

I doubt Ryder is redeemable. As a recurring player, my guess that either death or prison will befall him. I'd say it is another waste, but as long as Y&R remains clogged with a huge cast that plays only 1-2 days a week (at best), and few A stories "drive" the drama, ever departure is a blessing.

Jay, you and I have always shared a love for your "Fishwins", but I could only be happy with them, I think, running the House of Spectra over at B&B. (A wannabe fashion house, always WANTING to be in the big leagues, never succeeding). Alas, B&B feels they have their "nu-Spectra" (in Jackie M and also the emergent Logan-Forrester feud). Unfortunately, none of it is very fun. Seeing Michael-Kevin-Gloria conspire to best the House of Forrester, with Lauren as their "bonafide fashionista" could be fun.

Mark, in the most recent SOD they say

that one of Ryder/Daisy is staying. So I assume Ryder will be around for a while.

Jay, you and I have always shared a love for your "Fishwins", but I could only be happy with them, I think, running the House of Spectra over at B&B. (A wannabe fashion house, always WANTING to be in the big leagues, never succeeding). Alas, B&B feels they have their "nu-Spectra" (in Jackie M and also the emergent Logan-Forrester feud). Unfortunately, none of it is very fun. Seeing Michael-Kevin-Gloria conspire to best the House of Forrester, with Lauren as their "bonafide fashionista" could be fun.

Though I love the idea of Lauren returning to B&B, I have to say that I really feel Gloria Fisher is the character that best represents the 'new Y&R', the one that's been on the air for the last 7 years. The one that is the clusterfuck we see now. Gloria is the kind of character that SHOULD have been written off years ago, is totally broken and yet she is still there. The same goes for Stafford, Morrow, Leblanc and others who have overstayed their welcome at the expense of the show.

There is just something so frustrating about what has happened to Y&R because it all seems so damn deliberate. At least with GH and DAYS there seems to be an effort to make the show watchable; even when the shows are not great, they don't alienate their viewers. Y&R, on the other hand, is hell bent on alienation and they are excelling at this strategy.

I'm not watching the show until June when the Hoff is around just to see what kind of sh*t they give Jess Walton to play.

Jay, you and I have always shared a love for your "Fishwins", but I could only be happy with them, I think, running the House of Spectra over at B&B. (A wannabe fashion house, always WANTING to be in the big leagues, never succeeding). Alas, B&B feels they have their "nu-Spectra" (in Jackie M and also the emergent Logan-Forrester feud). Unfortunately, none of it is very fun. Seeing Michael-Kevin-Gloria conspire to best the House of Forrester, with Lauren as their "bonafide fashionista" could be fun.

All that stuff is so old and tired on B&B. I literally can't watch any scenes with Brooke/Stephanie fighting or the Logans/Forresters fighting, it's all so hollow, nothing ever changes. And the show never has the guts to kill off any Forresters; instead, various Logans die, and are then quickly forgotten.

Mark, in the most recent SOD they say

that one of Ryder/Daisy is staying. So I assume Ryder will be around for a while.

I pray to god your assumption is correct Carl. The alternative is unthinkable.

Edited April 27, 201015 yr by Juliajms

Oh. Sorry for the mixup there.

I didn't mind Kevin all that much until the chipmunk story. I still don't HATE him now, I just don't think he has any purpose on the show at this point, and I think that the show casts too many men now who are sort of similar to each other.

I don't have a problem with all those "dead-eyed emaciated heroin-chic unwashed" men, LOL. But I have a problem with too many unnecessary characters. I agree with what you say about Kevin. They keep regressing him to a no-growth state, but that's old hat. But if he moves forward, that's boring.

The only hopes I see for Kevin are:

- Jana dies, but he DOESN'T fall apart. Instead, he resolves to try stay positive...and in that vein, he actively pursues Mac. With Mac in JT's orbit, it allows some resurfacing of the old JT/Kevin friendship/rivalry. Moreover, seeing Kevin as a force for good in Mac, bringing her out of her shell, helping her confront the horrors of Darfur that have made her this closed-down person.

- Chance needs to go, IMO. If he does, I actually think there could be something interesting about a Kevin-Chloe partnering. And I like that it would add more fuel to the Kevin-Billy rivalry. (Yeah, I know I'm alone on that one)

- Many folks have alluded to Kev needing a "coming out" story. I don't see it...and I don't like the idea of (i) his being non-gay all these years without a hint of bisexuality, plus (ii) telling the story of 'abuse victim becomes gay or bi'.

But I think the "Fishwins" should just leave for B&B. (Yeah, I know, B&B is even more overstuffed....but let me dream)

I pray to god your assumption is correct Carl. The alternative is unthinkable.

That's hilarious...and true!

- Chance needs to go, IMO. If he does, I actually think there could be something interesting about a Kevin-Chloe partnering. And I like that it would add more fuel to the Kevin-Billy rivalry. (Yeah, I know I'm alone on that one)

Not at all. I'd like to see that too. I also think Mac/Kevin could be interesting, as could Chloe/Kevin.

- Many folks have alluded to Kev needing a "coming out" story. I don't see it...and I don't like the idea of (i) his being non-gay all these years without a hint of bisexuality, plus (ii) telling the story of 'abuse victim becomes gay or bi'.

The closest I've seen Kevin give off gay or bi vibes was when he was with Lauren's son Scotty.

I like that Fen is afraid of Sarah. I think TEB is playing those scenes well. I don't like the scenes where she has to talk to herself, it's just too much. I've hardly ever seen an actor who can truly pull that off, but her discomfort with Fen is working for me. I also like her scenes with Patty. I'm just blocking out how far fetched it all is.

Rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs had died a double death....the soap quagmire that's killing the whole genre (shows, magazines, these discussion fora)...plus the demise of usenet itself (except, I guess, it's vestigial parts in google groups).

There were many interesting characters at ratsc, but even those who are still there have sworn off the show.

Honestly, on topic, for me "Ryder" has been the one redeemable aspect of this story. Not only because the writers keep signalling that he is "not on board" with the evil plan, but because Bethel makes that palpable with his portrayal, body language.

I doubt Ryder is redeemable. As a recurring player, my guess that either death or prison will befall him. I'd say it is another waste, but as long as Y&R remains clogged with a huge cast that plays only 1-2 days a week (at best), and few A stories "drive" the drama, ever departure is a blessing.

Jay, you and I have always shared a love for your "Fishwins", but I could only be happy with them, I think, running the House of Spectra over at B&B. (A wannabe fashion house, always WANTING to be in the big leagues, never succeeding). Alas, B&B feels they have their "nu-Spectra" (in Jackie M and also the emergent Logan-Forrester feud). Unfortunately, none of it is very fun. Seeing Michael-Kevin-Gloria conspire to best the House of Forrester, with Lauren as their "bonafide fashionista" could be fun.

I only look at B&B occasionally, and only when they have some outstandingly hot Stud of the Year type. I would watch it, though, if they could do something decent with my beloved Gloria and Mon Kevin. They've slid into nothingness, with Gloria hardly appearing except occasionally in the opening credits.

I choose to believe they're doing this on purpose, making the show as unpalatable as they can possibly make it so we will be relieved when it finally ends, a la Procter & Gamble.

I would love to see Gloria and her sons in their rightful starring place in the firmament. Yes, that would be something.

Every storyline on this show is just hideously bad and so badly executed. There's absolutely NOTHING with any promise on the show right now. That for me is a sign that they've hit rock bottom, and I don't know if I'll ever be able to watch long-term again.