New article from Michael Logan discussing OLTL ditching Kish. Quotes from Jamey Giddens of Daytime Confidential, Brett Claywell, and a PR person from ABC.

http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/soaps/was-oltl-too-gay-for-america-4548.html

With the news, they probably feel a little betrayed and see it as a "one step forward, two steps back" scenario in regards to gays in daytime.

Welcome to the club.

Did the cuts that were made in any way help the show? If this is about making tough choices, then there's tons of dead weight that could have gone. Greg, Gigi, Rex, John, Todd, Tea, Danielle, Langston, Ford, Markko, Marty, Cole, among many others.

Yet none of these people went. If some of them had gone then I think people would be less upset. That and the smear campaign that ABC or whoever has done against gays and against the actors who played Kyle and Fish.

+1.

Unfortunately the biggest source of ugliness at the show, which is the misogyny, and the need to glorify men who rape and beat and destroy, seems unlikely to ever change. That and the women on the show, the women who are featured anyway, have become so hollow -- they're either headcases (Jessica), or overly propped, plaster goddesses (Tea, Gigi, Kelly).

THIS! What pissed me off, and I know it did alot of other viewers was Todd using air quotes when talking about having raped Marty. The acting choice for those scenes was off as was the writing.

Jessica's being ruined for what? Gigi is annoying and is starting to remind me of how McTavish wrote Babe on AMC and so on.

I also suspect that Gigi and Rex as well as Fish and Kyle didn't test well in focus groups which ABC loves. The network's solution was to dump the supporting characters in the Gigi/Rex horror show and get rid of Fish and Kyle completely.

ABC should have done what Days did and gotten rid of its top actors and characters. OLTL would actually stand a chance of recovery.

Edited April 6, 201015 yr by Ann_SS

Unfortunately the biggest source of ugliness at the show, which is the misogyny, and the need to glorify men who rape and beat and destroy, seems unlikely to ever change. That and the women on the show, the women who are featured anyway, have become so hollow -- they're either headcases (Jessica), or overly propped, plaster goddesses (Tea, Gigi, Kelly).

+1.

THIS! What pissed me off, and I know it did alot of other viewers was Todd using air quotes when talking about having raped Marty. The acting choice for those scenes was off as was the writing.

You expect equality from Daytime when the fans endorse TPTB's racism/sexism/homophobia?

I also suspect that Gigi and Rex as well as Fish and Kyle didn't test well in focus groups which ABC loves. The network's solution was to dump the supporting characters in the Gigi/Rex horror show and get rid of Fish and Kyle completely.

ABC should have done what Days did and gotten rid of its top actors and characters. OLTL would actually stand a chance of recovery.

Yet they bring back Tognoni & are already out of story for her.

It's become terribly obvious that ABC tiers their stars in a way that some are allowed to leave the show when they want to and others can be dumped whenever the show wants them gone. There are the "main characters," and it's their world; the "supporting characters" just rotate in and out. Rex isn't going anywhere, Gigi isn't going anywhere, John isn't going anywhere...Todd, Blair, Dorian and Viki...all of them are safe no matter what. There may be a little middle group in there (Bo, Clint, Nora, possibly Marty, Natalie, some others, but make no mistake, there are the people who are just expendable and can be ditched at any time. Markko, Layla, Cristian, and Greg mainly, who are, I'm sure don't have to say, are all a few shades darker than Snow White. When any of those four get the boot, however, it'll be because there isn't any storyline for them or because they have no "connections" or blah blah blah. Ir reflects poorly on the writer who did not take the time to create connections for these characters, kthxbye.

But, I forget, "this is Rex and Gigi's time" (Carlivati, 2010).

Yet they bring back Tognoni & are already out of story for her.

She will have plenty of story being Todd's latest victim love interest.

Just imagine when ATWT goes off, Passanante will get some of her faves over to OLTL. It's going to be horrible.

She will have plenty of story being Todd's latest victim love interest.

You see how well that worked out for Blair, Marty & Tea.

This article by Michael Logan proves that he is ABC hatchet man. He is a nasty piece of work. I wish people would start telling him so in the comment section of his bog. He

Rachel was written off so having ties to a main soap family does not make it harder to write off a character. TPTB are always quick to blame minorities or supporting characters when their stories flop. The network may have tossed Fish and Kyle, but make no mistake Valenti happily tossed all the African American actors after them. As CarlD2 and I have pointed out numerous times, there are at least ten to fifteen characters who need to go before the supporting players including the beloved John, Todd, Rex, and Gigi.

I had a real problem with the writing for Kyle and Fish. As others have pointed out, Brett was the stronger actor and the change of his character made me lose interest instantly.

I agree that Internet is not a real gauge of how a story is playing out in the wider audience. However, the soap audience is far more diverse than it was in the past. The real problem is that the network and its advertisers are easily scared by a small number of homophobic people writing nasty letters. Mixed-ethnic romances also have similar reactions.

I love the core family logic argument. Kevin Buchanan was core. Duke Buchanan. Sarah Lord. Joey Buchanan. Core family does not guarantee anything. A core character is an actor that has the investement of the network behind them. Kim would have become a core and under that definition Rex is a core. The blood tie he will receive is a side effect to the fact that Frons wants to position him as a lead. If minority and homosexual characters had that kind of committment in daytime none of this would ever happen.

I love the core family logic argument. Kevin Buchanan was core. Duke Buchanan. Sarah Lord. Joey Buchanan. Core family does not guarantee anything. A core character is an actor that has the investement of the network behind them. Kim would have become a core and under that definition Rex is a core. The blood tie he will receive is a side effect to the fact that Frons wants to position him as a lead. If minority and homosexual characters had that kind of committment in daytime none of this would ever happen.

Exactly. Once ABC decides an actor is a star based on focus groups and fan mail, then the character and actor is safe. It is irrelevant of talent. I still burns me how OLTL fired Kathy Brier because Marcy and Michael had no more story, while the talentless FF gets tons of airtime and the talentless BW continues to get ridiculous story and love interests.

FV and RC can kiss my ass. I can't stand what the both of them have done to OLTL. I think that they are far more to blame for the hot mess that is OLTL. They suck.

Edited April 6, 201015 yr by Ann_SS

Compared to the Gary Tomlin era, the gay wedding/Kish sweeps story was positively butch.

LOL! True that! I stand corrected, Vee. :-D

Exactly. Once ABC decides an actor is a star based on focus groups and fan mail, then the character and actor is safe. It is irrelevant of talent. I still burns me how OLTL fired Kathy Brier because Marcy and Michael had no more story, while the talentless FF gets tons of airtime and the talentless BW continues to get ridiculous story and love interests.

FV and RC can kiss my ass. I can't stand what the both of them have done to OLTL. I think that they are far more to blame for the hot mess that is OLTL. They suck.

Co-sign

I'm not sure I completely buy the "most soap viewers are conservative" line. In Worlds Without End there's a fascinating essay that mentions the research ABC did, partly due to sinking ratings, when they realized how large a gay male viewing demo they had for AMC and wrote the gay storylines they had in 1996-97 (which granted were not at all explicit when it came to gay male affection). They also did tons of research on if these stories were turning conservative viewers away, and aside from some complaints the essay claims, anyway, that they found the reaction was overwhelmingly positive. Soaps often had interacial couples before primetime tv did, not to mention some other taboos.

Wasn't saying most are, just that a good chunk or even a plurality are. Plus, soaps have a largely reduced audience from a decade or so ago, when it comings to demographics now, I don't think are as many progressive viewers as one might think.

what I don't understand is the disconnect between the focus group/fan mail reaction and the reaction to Kish on these boards; most people seemed pretty happy with the couple, tho the writing isn't great. Was there any kind of outcry on the soap boards when Kyle and Fish had sex? (Was there even one during the mass gay wedding?)

Wasn't saying most are, just that a good chunk or even a plurality are. Plus, soaps have a largely reduced audience from a decade or so ago, when it comings to demographics now, I don't think are as many progressive viewers as one might think.

I think they are. The daytime audience is shrinking but these same people in those demographics watch primetime and cable which are progressive. I don't think they turn the channel to Full House ReRuns so what happens during the day? Suddenly they become prudes and they are offended but on Thursday nights they are fine watching a lesbian love scene on Grey's Anatomy? I think it is excuse. The daytime mainstream audience is not as Conservative as the network would have you believe. Many producers, writers and actors are bicurious, bisexual or gay. Doesn't add up if you ask me.

Edited April 8, 201015 yr by Leia