GH: April Discussion Thread

[Eric83]

I absolutely loved how they used history by bringing up Lulu's abortion.

Finally creating internal drama with a couple, instead of some lame interloper.

[DRW50]

They are desperate to make us root for Ethan. They must have had some very, very negative audience feedback on him last year.

[Mr. Vixen]

I think this show is most deffinitely written for men. There are no women on the show who are strong, succesful, or reasonable that DONT have a man at their side. The show has pretty much made a point to degrade all women to a point where they can only live if they have a man in their life.

Elizabeth- COME ON. She was raped, she miscarried children, she was shot, her child was kidnapped...Yet none of those things actually caused her to have a breakdown, but Lucky finding out she's a whore DOES? That is so degrading. If Elizabeth had a meltdown after her rape, that's reasonable, the same goes for the other things...But the fact that NONE of these things cause her to slip, but Lucky dumping her DID, just shows how no women on this show can be independant of a man, and it's sad.

Robin- Her romance with Stone was one of the ages. a Real love story, and still a legacy to this day. Even Robin's relationship with Jason was pretty well done and tolerable (though it deffinitely had its moments of degrading nature), but her relationship with Patrick is completely demeaning to her. He treats her like crap, judges her, yells at her, and is the first to throw her under the bus and NOT stand by her side, but yet whenever Robin is alone she oos and ahs over how great he is to her, and runs around town defending his A-hole behavior as "a big ego. It's all well an good to stand by your man, but when he refuses to stand by you, and tells you flat out that your opinions don't matter, it seems like a bit of a stretch. But of course, GH doesn't ever allow her to stand up to Patrick, and always invents some convuluted way to have her "realize" she was wrong, even when everyone knows in reality it's Patrick who is the problem, but GH will never admit that a man is bad. Throw ALL of that on top of the fact that every once in a while Patrick or Lisa or whoever will throw in that Robin is lucky to even HAVE a man, since she has HIV, and you have maybe the WORST example of how demeaning the show is towards its female cast.

Then there's the Nikolas/Liz/Lucky triangle. This horrible storyline has been especially demeaning to Liz. While, she was obviously very wrong to do this, the way it was handled in the end was very bad. Lucky conveniently forgot that when he was engaged to Liz in 2002, he did the EXACT same thing to Liz by having an affair with HER SISTER Sarah. Lucky AND Liz for that matter, decided NOT to mention this, and to pretened it never happened, as a way to make Lucky look so high and mighty. While Lucky has every right to be upset, the fact that he refuses to remember this, and the fact that Liz has conveniently forgotten it too, is just another convenience Guza has allowed himself to degrade women. And the fact that Lucky called Liz out IN PUBLIC repeatedly, calling her every dirty name in the book, yelling, screaming, beating her into the ground...But yet he NEVER freaked out at Nikolas. He mentioned to several people how he was DONE with Nikolas, and how angry he was, but he NEVER tore into him the way he did to Liz, which is ridiculous because Nik is his BROTHER, and that is a much bigger betrayal, that was conveniently overlooked by everyone on the show is horrible. Lucky seems to have conveniently decided to look over the fact that his own brother betrayed him, but he still went to shadybrooke on the regular to tell liz he didnt love her and they were over. It is completely diminishing to Liz to have Luxky blame EVERYTHING on her, when his brother is just as wrong, along with the fact that Lucky did the exact same thing.

So, yes, there are elements of the show that are aimed towards women, but there is never a storyline in which a woman is the HERO. Never. All the women run areound town rejoicing about how Sonny and Jason always come to their rescue, but they NEVER seem to realize that if they didnt socialize with SOnny and Jason they wouldnt NEED saving.

The only character that is ever independent of a man is Alexis. And look how many storylines she is a frontburner in. She supports her daughters, who are all in angst over men, and once in a while she will get a big storyline about her latest relationship with psychotic man. She had mad chemistry with Mac, but that romance was completely shoved to the adie, which partly plays into the shows utter disregard for veterans, along with the fact that the show is NEVER going to pair Alexis in a long term relationship with a stable, safe, decent man, because then they wouldnt be able to degrade her later by having all characters tell her about her bad taste in men, which seems to be everyones favorite thing to do with Alexis.

Overall, I think the show is completey aimed towards men. It allows the men who DONT know what soaps are supposed to be, to get the idea that women are like this in real life. It is many mans fantasy to live in a world where women cant do anything on their own and must rely on big macho men to save the day. It is not only degrading to women, but it is blatantly opposite to how real life is, which is why it appeals to men who eat up these "damsels in distress".

The show even managed to make it impossible to have sympathy for a teen abuse victim, by having her lie and blame someone else and have no remorse for her ruining his life. And they did this to make us have sympathy for a MALE character, when the young girl was the one beaten. If that isnt a demeaning, convuluted, degrading way of treating women, then i dont know what is.

[Cheap21]

they did? I missed that. How was it used?

[Juliajms]

I'm not sure if these people are too stupid to know that their target demo are young women or if they are just clueless about what appeals to the people they are supposed to be marketing to. No wonder ad rates for these shows are dropping like rocks, not to mention the quality of advertisers (Better call Saul!!. ) I'm surprised they aren't resorting to more product placement than they already have.

Anyway, NLG is doing a really good job with what she's been given. She's definitely putting her heart into her performance. I like that she hasn't been wearing makeup. I think that makes her performance more realistic. She looks completely distraught.

I want more of Tracy in Ethan's part of this story. She's been there for Ethan and LuLu a lot I don't like to see her pushed aside for Skye. I'd much rather see Skye make a play for Jax.

[Eric83]

Dante said he was glad his mom didn't take the easy way out and get an abortion when she was younger.

Lulu got uneasy, and had a flashabck with her and Luke talking about her about to get the abortion.

I wasn't paying attention at the end, but I think she left Dante's apartment after he said that.

[Ann_SS]

SoapBoy94, Bravo!!! I'm in front of the computer high fiving you. It is so hard to articulate the depth to which GH degrades women and praises horrific men.

As I am a huge Robin fan so I have to say thanks for this bit of your post. It is unbelievable how degrading Robin's relationship with Patrick is. He throws woman after woman in her face including Carly and she goes running after him. WTF? Patrick runs off to Vegas with his friend and then he and Mac turn it around on Robin, claiming she is the one who does not want a commitment. WTF? I'll never forget listening to Patrick rant at Robin for not telling him that she was pregnant and whine for most of her pregnancy about his fears of becoming a father, when he was the one who knew the condom broke and said nothing. WTF! What kind of man acts like he has a choice about being a father when a child is coming and then puts his drama on his pregnant HIV+ ex-girlfriend? I couldn't believe it when she slept with him without even asking if he was still seeing Leyla. Robin constantly fawns over Patrick and calls him brilliant, while he praises her once in a blue moon. He is egotistical and frequently insults and puts her down in public. The way he treats her is horrific. I can't wait to see how Patrick sleeping with Lisa is Robin's fault. I'm sure that it will be a classic. If Robin and Patrick stay together, I expect that Guza will be importing a woman every year to rub Robin's nose in her undesirability to other men because she is HIV+, yet single women who can have their pick of men are somehow only attracted to Patrick who is sleeping with a HIV+ woman. Riiight.

I also think that GH appeals to women who view a woman's role as subservient and unable to do anything without a man's support in a completely negative way. A lot of young women without a lot of experience and older women who have relied on men for most of their life feel this way which is why women often will take the side of the men demeaning the women on GH.

[Mr. Vixen]

Thank you, Ann! I'm high fiving you back right now! I definitely enjoy GH, and it is the soap I have watched longest. I think there are aspects of it that are very well done. NLG's performance in this storyline is stellar, and I think there are certainly bright spots on the show that make it enjoyable and fun to watch, but the ongoing degrading of women as a whole is something that has really bothered me for a long time. There are exceptions to this, but I think in general, this ongoing degrading of women is something that is/will be the demise of the show, and something I personally hate about it.

I totally agree with this. I adore Robin, and she as always been one of my favorite characters on the show. I just have never understood this double standard that Guza uses with her being HIV+. He repeatedly uses this as an excuse in his writing. When Robin was single, he used it as a reason to keep her that way, and ONLY when he found someone he thought was worthy of being a pet, did he allow her to be in a relationship. And instead of the Patrick/Robin relationship being a possible legacy relationship in PAtrick being understanding and caring of Robin throughout her struggle with it, and being the man who stand by her side, is her ultimate defender, and adores her no matter WHAT she does/has, they completely butchered it. Instead of making Patrick a "hero" type by him being a caring, loving, nurturing husband who overlooks all obstacles to focus on his love of Robin, they twisted him and turned him into a "Guza Hero", which is ultimately just someone who degrades women and preaches about how women should have morals, and then turns around and has none of his own. Guza has decided to make him a "hero" by writing him as the guy who TOLERATES Robin's HIV+, and a guy who can get whatever girl he wants. He wrote him to be this victim that is always concerned about what will happen to HIM because of Robin being HIV+, instead of worrying about HER health. He wrote him to be concerned the ENTIRE pregnancy about whether HE contracted it, and what HE would have to go through, and how hard it was for HIM. He rarely, if EVER, was concerned about Robin's health, or the baby's for that matter, throughout the pregnancy. So yes, this is a typical "hero" for Guza, but he is beyond demeaning to Robin, who has been a fan favorite since 1985. This is YET another example of the utter disregard for any of the shows history. You can be sure if Patrick was the one who was on for 20+ years and was HIV+, there is NO WAY that he would have ANYTHING other than a full support system from the whole town. The fact that Robin gets absolutely nothing from her "loved one" is just a horrible example of how much Guza loathes women and any history that the show has regarding RESPECT and LOVE towards women.

And focusing on how ROBIN can't sleep around, have sexual relationships with more than one person, and how SHE has to be careful is ridiculous because Patrick has slept with how many women inbetween his "romance" with Robin? And did ONE of them show ANY concern about sleeping with him, knowing he has sex with an HIV+ woman? No. Guza just manipulates Robin being HIV+ into a sick tool to prop up the town sleeze, Patrick.

I agree with this. I think there is definitely a generation where women were fully dependent on men. But that isn't today. GH should be propping up with pride the fact that women can now be strong and have their own lives. Instead, we are falling back into a generation where women NEEDED men, and what women from an era BEYOND when this was a reality is going to want to sit around and watch women living in a time warp and being unable to be independant?

And this is no way to exhibit women for younger viewers who are females. It is a horrible way to showcase women, and is extremely degrading.

GH might as well flash a message saying "ATTENTION: If you are about to view this program, please keep in mind that women are treated like crap and are not allowed to be independent and strong. We are unable to move out of a generation of sick double standards that eneded decades ago. If you don't like watching women being degraded and crapped on, please do not watch this show."

It amazes me that this show could do good in the key women demos, with how $hitty women are portrayed on it.

[Juliajms]

Are they doing good? I'm not so sure. They may be #2 in women 18-49, but that equals under 1 million eyes at this point. I see them as #2, not because they are doing well, but because other soaps are doing worse. That's not going to save them for long if ad rates keep dropping.

I'm sure Toups or someone knows more about this than I do, but I'm pretty sure I've read that the ABC soaps are having difficulty selling their ad space. Given that the ratings include DVR viewings, I'd say things are even worse than they appear, since by many accounts advertisers don't give a whole lot of weight to DVR viewings. They know full well most people just zip on by their ads.

[Mr. Vixen]

I agree, I think GH is number 2 probably because of other soaps doing bad. But I think GH is the most unfriendly show towards women, so it kind of surprises me that any other show could do worse, because I think all of the shows are far more women friendly.

[Ann_SS]

The thing is that I don't even think that Patrick is a pet. He is a man so even though Guza needs Robin who has the history to drive the story, he turns it around to give Patrick the upper hand. This is the main reason that I liked when Robin was rejecting Patrick during her pregnancy. It was the only time that she has ever been able to have the upper hand even though it only lasted a couple months and she was berated by everyone to change her mind.

Sam is in the same position or worse with Jason. The independence that she had with Lucky and for a little while when they broke up has disappeared. Her PI business has vanished. Yet she benefits by getting more airtime.

The only woman on GH who always gets perspective and the upper hand in stories is Carly. She is essentially a man. She can cheat, lash out at Jax and others, lecture Sonny and Jason, and do what she wants with impunity which probably is why she is so popular with a lot of female fans. In some respective, Carly is the Sami Brady of GH.

[Juliajms]

Well, that's a hard call for me. OLTL has a rapist as a male lead. Y&R has a lot of extreme victimization of women going on. I don't consider it as bad as GH on that front, but a lot of people on the Y&R thread sure do. B&B's women revolve around men, arguably more than the women of GH. At the very least it's a toss up. AMC is probably the least offensive of the soaps that I watch when it comes to how women are portrayed, imo.

Last I checked the job of soaps was to entice female viewers 12-49 in, so that advertisers could target that market. I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone but Y&R has failed and is on the verge of cancellation. I won't be all that sorry when it happens either because TPTB have chosen to not only ignore the needs of it's target demo, but to actively shove a misogynistic world view in our faces. I'd prefer a miracle happen and someone step in to turn the ship around, but if not, then fine, let her sink.

[quartermainefan]

One of the things that makes me shake my head when I see this claim is it accompanies a list of truly horrible writing that portrays women teribly, as if this is the definition of being written for a man. That is ridiculous and sort of insulting. I still stand by my belief that all the horrible portrayals of women on GH is squarely aimed at women.

[Juliajms]

I don't really think it's aimed at men. Soaps don't have much incentive to pull in male viewers. We already know that's not who the majority of GH's advertisers are trying to reach. I think it's more that Guza/Frons have absolutely no idea what women want to watch. They are writing for themselves (and their pets) and refuse to change no matter how many people jump ship. Here we are with the real unemployment rate at around 17% and GH not only isn't gaining viewers, but they are bleeding out.

[Ann_SS]

This is exactly what we mean. Obviously Guza is writing for for that prized women demo, but the stories revolve around men because that is his instinct. If the horrific way that Guza portrays women entertains "women," then I do find that ridiculous and insulting because it means that our society has a long way to go regarding women issues.