HBO: Game of Thrones

[quartermainefan]

It would be cool to walk around dressed as Robb Stark in his cool fur cape (or whatever that was he wore) and a big Siberian Husky beside you. Of All the men, I think Robb and Oberyn had the best wardrobes.

[DRW50]

Robb was just stunningly beautiful. The furs were always perfect for his coloring, he wore leathers that suited him to a tee, and then toward the end when he started caring less and less and scandalized his followers with chest hair. I've always wondered if one of the reasons the Lannisters killed him was because even with all their money, he was far better dressed than they were.

[quartermainefan]

What an epic finale, easily the best finale so far and credit that to a lack of Dany. Bran's story is so interesting because it is the most steeped in fantasy, but it was Arya who was at the heart of this episode. (I am shocked we got no Sansa for the finale). When Brienne saw Arya it was like a moment of "this is it!" and I sort of held my breath waiting for something major to happen for Arya finally rescued by the most noble character on the show. The show was so wise not to have it be that clean and tidy and it was like The Hound and Brienne were battling parents fighting for custody. The Hound actually liked Arya for who she is and Brienne though is only nobly pledged to do right by Arya, so while I think Brienne had a case it was The Hound Arya belonged with. He has been her only friend these last two seasons and while Brienne means well where is she going to take her?

Epic sword fight and maybe the first one between two characters we root for equally.

The Lannisters: Loved the scenes with Cersei. I can't believe what happened with Tywin. First Joffrey, now Tywin....the show is running out of juicy villains. Cersei can't do all the work herself in this dept. I will greatly miss Tywin, he was the best character on the show played by the best actor.

Red Witch oggling Jon Snow? Yawn, all talk no action, lady.

Edited June 16, 2014 by quartermainefan

[Vee]

I don't mind the Daenerys story - I just like watching her struggle to learn to rule, I like the nitty-gritty of that process. I know it's not the most exciting thing for some people but it fascinates me. And of course her arc has left her a hypocrite; she must chain her own children.

I don't think Arya ever belonged with the Hound. She should've gone off with Brienne, but of course I can't have nice things so off she goes to Braavos with some other brilliant tweenage idea.

I had expected the Children of the Forest to be sort of homunculus-like and less human; more sort of tree goblin children, as depicted in some of the art on the Blu-Ray sets. The kid who turned up was surprisingly human.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Vee

[Juliajms]

Yes, I'll miss Tywin as well. These scenes are why i've never thought of Tyrion as any kind of saint. Shooting Tywin was one thing, but having him kill Shae, so brutally was something else. Within the context of this world, she had it coming, but that was still next level, hands on, murder.

I think that Little Finger may be the shows ultimate (human) villain. He plays his cards close to the vest, so it's hard to tell.

This is unkind, but I was hoping to hear the Mountain scream. I have no idea why Cersei cares if he lives or dies at this point.

[quartermainefan]

She drove him into a murderous insanity. He had no idea he was going to find her in Tywin's bed but the thought of it drove him crazy. She had it coming and one of the reasons he had to kill Tywin is because in a way Tywin is what led him to kill Shae. He clearly loved Shae even after her death to the point that Tywin cavalierly dismissing her as a whore drove him to fire the first arrow into Tywin.

I think the show has reached a turning point here. The war of the kings seems to be done and now everyone is on their own little story that has nothing to do with the events that started the show. The Lannisters, we can assume, will now be about their empire crumbling without Tywin, Arya is off on independent adventures no longer on the run trying to find family but rather making her way in the world, Bran is busy in magic land, and Jon and Stannis are now all about the white walkers. Tyrion we shall have to see where he goes but his days navigating the Lannister intrigue game seem to be over too.

[DRW50]

As for the episode...

Dany's story has been up and down this season (I think a lot of viewers have struggled with her now that she isn't the conquering savior, and at times the show has too), but her scenes were among the most powerful of the episode. I teared up when she had to chain up Viserion and Rhaegal. One of them nuzzling her hand to the end was just too much for me...so sad. And they were generally the "good" dragons. I know "good" dragons can still hurt and kill innocents, and of course, Drogon isn't bad, he's just breaking away and wants his own world, but I just felt terrible for them. Emilia Clarke did a wonderful job here. The scenes with the slave who didn't know where to go or what to do was also a strong moment for the story. This story is extremely timely, as we are seeing in the news every day that "liberating" is not enough, and can cause even more problems. Dany just is not a good leader. She may be learning, but time is running out.

Moving on to the second best...

A part of me felt like everything with Brienne, The Hound, Arya and Pod (who is way too hot for the dunce role he plays) was just jumping up and down to stall plot, but that fight with Brienne and Sandor was, as Antoyne said, the best fight I can remember on the show. Arya refusing to kill him and instead taking his money was the perfect end to their relationship, absolutely the best. He certainly taught her well. Rory McCann's best work on the show (that last scene with Arya). I smiled when she wanted to go see Jon, even though this was foiled reunion attempt #543. The final shot on the boat was beautiful...it reminded me of Queen Christina.

I have never connected to Arya, but I was impressed with her here. Maisie Williams was generally excellent in this episode, and she has this real glow and charisma about her that stood out tonight. If she stays in the business she's going to really be something.

The rest...

I don't have a problem with Jojen dying (other than being sad, because I thought he was a great character), but the actual death scene was very anticlimactic. The most moving part was when Meera was torn over whether to stay with her brother or move on from the person she essentially existed for. If she is just there to be Bran's love interest, I will be annoyed, because that would be unnecessary, but I do like her. The Children were very Mad Max-esque, which worked. I had to pause at Bloodraven, because at first I thought they had put a man in some sort of Fu Manchu makeup, but I don't think that's what they were doing. I felt sad for Bran when he actually thought he might be able to walk again. I wonder where this story is going. I'm interested but this story really needs more airtime.

King's Landing drama...this is tough to talk about because there were a lot of things they went into and didn't go into. Book spoilers

I'm not as upset over the changes as some fans are, because that stuff was just so so heavy and gross and I don't think it really fit the characters on the show. I do think the changes made Tyrion's murder spree a little less easy to believe, even with the change to Shae grabbing the knife. I just wonder why they'd spent most of seasons 2 and 3 with Shae so sympathetic. She was very much a plot device in her final appearances.

Peter Dinklage was amazing, as was Charles Dance, who always brought such dignity and strength to what could have easily been a cheap throwaway domineering father type. Season 3 had so many delicious Tywin moments I will always remember.

I also loved Lena Headey's work. I have to admit the sept scene made me much less drawn into the Jaime/Cersei stuff here than I would have been otherwise, but I still loved seeing Cersei at full blast. I've seen some talk that this was OOC for Cersei, but when you think about it, Cersei no longer had any reason to look up to her father. He had failed her children, in spite of the supposed Lannister family loyalty. He had failed to keep the family in money. He was doing nothing that, in her mind, she couldn't have done better. After a lifetime under his thumb, she'd had enough. We've seen Cersei amassing her own power base, with Qyburn (I love the actor in this role - he's just terrific), and now possibly with what remains of Gregor Clegane. She's coming into her own, and while that is a delusion, because we've repeatedly seen just how bad she is at major decisions, I can see why she thinks it's her turn. I was oddly proud of her in those moments. I was also a little shocked when it seemed like she was going to blow him. Frankly, I thought I'd stumbled into AO3....

Jaime's character is a hash, but Nicolaj was perfect in his supporting scenes, especially his goodbye with Tyrion.

I missed some of the Wall scenes, but I'm really glad they let Jon take Ygritte's body and burn her like the warrior that she was. That was respectful to her and to their relationship. I'm also glad that Stannis and co (the longest-surviving character group at this point - three seasons and counting without being separated, aside from Davos being presumed dead for an episode) saved the day. Given that The Wall is all about paying lip service to "duty," while actually flouting it in favor of gameplaying and ego, it's only suited that someone whose entire life is Duty Duty Duty has shown up to help. I wish we'd seen more of Mance Rayder before now, but then part of me thinks he works best in the shadows.

I was so busy expecting

, but I'd sort of prepared myself for that not happening, so I wasn't ENRAGED HULK SMASH the way some book fans were. To be honest,

but I guess I get the fan furor.

Overall I thought it was a pretty good episode. The show is now at the point where the story threads are so disparate, it's never going to have the skill of the first season, because so much has to be devoted to keeping characters further apart, but the individual scenes still have a great deal of wonderful acting and some good writing.

I have a feeling it's going to become fashionable to say this finale sucked. Overall I thought it was fine enough, something I'll have to watch a few times to process.

Edited June 16, 2014 by DRW50

[Vee]

I really don't think anyone who isn't hidebound about the books is going to say that sucked. I think that is the absolute last thing on the general public's minds after that episode, which was a showstopper. I think the show is firing on all cylinders and I think the general reaction to this year bears that out as well. I haven't seen even a hint of that kind of reaction to this year, at least among the general public - most people I know IRL don't read the books, and those that do don't have a problem AFAIK. The most I heard from my most obsessive friend was that she hoped they would mention the last of the giants, which they did.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

I wasn't really talking about the general fans, I meant the critical elite types, who have their own level, and often drive conversation. I was just reading the AV Club review and they enjoyed the episode, but said it showed how GoT is "coming apart at the seams." I don't think Game of Thrones is falling apart, I think it's a massive show in structure and that will have to fray with each passing season, but I do think this season has shown some of the strains of that structure.

There are three certain types of fans of the show online, it seems like - the one who just enjoys the show, the one who mostly looks at the show from the POV of the books, and then the critics, who are often focused on trends or on how to stand out. So there are often three different reactions.

[Vee]

I don't think anyone is really giving major critical weight to the AV Club's take on this show at this point - they've sort of been dog-paddling towards trying to create some sort of furor since before the show returned this year. And I mean, it only matters to me as much as I let it.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

It doesn't matter to me either, per se, I was just saying that I won't be surprised if that becomes some common opinion, and that even if it does, I still thought the episode was pretty good overall. There was some of that with the TWD finale too, for a while, but I also thought that was pretty good.

I do hope next season we get a Stark reunion. Just one.

Edited June 16, 2014 by DRW50

[Vee]

Maybe Bran will go flying around and they'll have him kludgily voice animals, like in Milo & Otis. He can pop up and check in with everyone. One week he's a raven, the next he's a squirrel or a seagull. "Arya! It's me!" As the animal sort of vaguely moves its mouth in some half-assed fashion. I could watch that for a few months.

Speaking of Bran and voice acting, here is his silly-looking new animated film where he plays a boy raised by trolls.

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I really don't see the general populace ever picking up the mixed critical opinion of the AV Club of late. Given the overwhelming reaction this year that's just not happening with this show.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

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[DRW50]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/15/game-of-thrones-showrunners-on-season-4-finale-twists/

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/15/game-of-thrones-hound-brienne-finale-fight/

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-finale-martin/

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

It had its moments but overall it sucked mostly for book reasons. Once again they totally made up stuff/added in things that make no sense while eliminating crucial scenes and dialogue that would made moments more justifiable and understandable....

The Hound & Brienne fight while never happening in the books was pretty brutal and amazing but stepping away from it I see that it was just there to provide the "audience" with more shock, gore, and violence. It served no plot purpose except for Arya to escape the Hound which could have been accomplished in a million ways.

The Kings Landing stuff was just laughable. Everything from Cersei admitting the incest to Tywin to Tywin pretending like he didn't believe her (are we supposed to believe that a smart man like that would just ignore the bombshell his daughter just dropped on him?). Then not 2 seconds later Cersei and Jaime are getting it on in yet another public area after she's told him that she confessed the incest to their father? Then of course Tyrion who the show goes out of their way to make sympathetic when in truth he's half a monster. The whole "Shae attacking Tyrion" thing was just dumb. They left out the scene between Jaime and Tyrion and the Tywin death scene was a let down.

I can't remember anything else except for Stannis arriving which was pretty good from a visual perspective. OH Jojen....I'd care more about him dying prematurely but it's so minor compared to the rest of the screw ups. Not sure how this was a better episode than any of the previous ones aside from being longer.

Edited June 16, 2014 by ThePrinceOfSunspear