I'll just keep it simple: what we're watching (though I no longer watch regularly) is not Y&R. It's sh*t. SH*T. That's all it is.

Damn, you were missed! Going beyond the simplistic ("fire everybody"), how would you fix it, DF?

LMAO!!

I've been kind over the years but I can no longer continue to hold back.

This show is total and utter sh!t. It is so far down in the gutter, it isn't even funny. Unless you're a HUGE (and I mean HUGE) Billy Miller/Stacy Haiduk/Michael Muhney fan, the show is absolute garbage.

There is no denying that it is not must-see TV these days. For me, the latest straw-that-broke is JoJo. They're going for the humor. It's been like a 2-episode sitcom, so far. NO HEART!! Kay and Jo _may_ be meeting their long lost mother-daughter...and there is NO emotion. Not a drop. Just laughs. Walton/Cooper are doing their best to salvage this, but there is absolutely no meaningful emotion. If the _real_ offspring is whom most of us think it is, he/she is thus far unimpressive too. All his/her actions so far have been for some kind of vengeance? It seems clear that the "business deal" he/she is trying to push Kay into is designed to push Chancellor to the brink...so he/she can take control. Yuck.

It is disgusting how they've violated characters like Ashley and Sharon for no higher purpose whatsoever. When I tuned in & saw Adam slobbering all over Sharon, the chick who's baby he stole for no good reason, I was revolted and as a writer myself, I cannot think of a dramatic payoff worth mercilessly torturing these two women in this way.

Here I disagree. I truly, truly believe that the Sharon we're seeing today is a logical outgrowth of who she was since we met her (always needing a man, not particularly developed emotionally) and what has happened to her (the demise of her family). I buy her.

As for Ashley, for me, what sells the story is her three previous breakdowns and her obsession with babies for a very long time. I'm reading the Ashley we're seeing today (chirpy, chipper) as quite insane, locked in a tower of denial. But I rather like her that way, I must confess. Every time this happy Ashley comes on my screen, I just smile. I think her ultimate breakdown will be very compelling to watch...when she thinks/fears she is the one who shot Adam. I'm guessing Sharon or Nick will be the "prime suspect", Ashley will worry she is the one who did it, and the molester-obstetrician will be the real culprit. Have I read too much Agatha Christie over the years??

Everything that did (and did not) happen in the P3/P4/P87 story sucked ass, save the return of Tricia Cast as Nina. My God, this Chance person is just an absolute waste and in no way embodies what a real, core Y&R character is about- THIS is Nina's son, Kay's great grandson, and Jill's grandson? Who are they trying to kid?

Utter and total agreement.

OVARIAN CANCER STORYLINE!?!? They can suck my balls. Seriously.

Utter and total agreement.

The Y&R I know & love is gone and it's not coming back. The sh!t show they're producing right now ain't the least bit worth my time.

Why do you think it is never coming back? Even over at AMC, there are some glimmers that it might rediscover at least a part of its identity.

I do wonder whether Stacy Haiduk fans really enjoy any of this story or not.

Not kidding here: Are there "Stacy Haiduk fans"? I mean, a lot of us have liked some of what that actress has brought, but I can't imagine she has an organized fan brigade. For me, I view both of her characters as utterly ruined (Patty is too nuts and is being written as unfixable; Emily lost me when she transgressed boundaries and went into an insta-romance with Jack), so I'm just eager to see this whole tale wrap up during February sweeps. Except...

I'm sort of thinking that the Valentine's Day wedding (Feb sweeps) will involve some Tricia-Victoria type switch, where Jack actually ends up marrying Patty. The question is whether Emily will be killed or just stuffed in a closet. I kind of hope she is killed. But, of course, then during the wedding night (before Jack wises up), Patty will be impregnated. Which is a shame. Because at this point she should die.

How can Patty say the only two people in the world she has are Paul and Dr. Pee?? What about Steve? Todd? her mom? I don't get it. Why aren't they visiting?

Then again, I have no idea where Paul's son Ricky is either... You all decry what has happened to the Winters, but what has happened to the Williams clan is just as bad.

Mark, doesn't this make it even more pathetic that the show has no idea how to write for the characters you mentioned? Billy jumps through hoops -- the only constant is Billy Miller pulling faces. Adam has been completely destroyed. Cane is an afterthought. Kevin and Amber have become unwatchable. Daniel is pointless. Jana is pointless. Lily has become some sort of bad cross between Nicole Richie and an Oscar Micheaux film.

If this is the future, then what does it say about the people in charge of Y&R?

I'm with you. Except...

- yeah, Billy Miller is all mugging and facial contortions, but I cannot deny I enjoy him. He captures my attention every second he is on screen...thus I can accept this redefinition of Billy. I accepted it--especially--as a reaction to losing the love of his life (Mac). I don't so much understand it now...but the way I have rationalized it (yes, I'm using that word, because I'm constantly accused of it) is that once Billy fell into self-destructive and self-loathing habits, getting Mac back wasn't enough to transform him away from the mess he had become. That actually happens in life.

- Cane only shines for me with other men. I like him in confrontations with Billy. I liked him scaling poles with JT (no pun intended). I think he should be thrust into some macho, action-y storylines...and away from sappiness. Lily needs to die, I'm sorry to say.

- I like Kevin and Amber, but I would happily see both of them written out. In my vision of the show, we'd distill the cast down to about 18 players...maybe 9 of them are our "veterans", and the other 9 are WELL CAST next-generation members. Then, we play this group 4-5 days a week. We do lots of recaps and reactions...slow the pace down. Both GH and Days have cast members with over 200-episodes a year, and I truly believe that is a smart, strong way to go. I'd rather have this than the dispersed, unfocused canvas we have now.

I'm vaguely intrigued by the idea of reuniting Amber with her "son", and seeing how it hurts her relationship with Daniel (who is not ready to be a daddy). Unfortunately, Y&R these days doesn't know how to write emotions (witness how awful the JoJo-Kay scenes have been, on the emotional side), so I have no optimism this would work.

- Daniel and Jana are pointless. In my version of it, Daniel realizes he cannot be a father to little D, and leaves town. Meanwhile, Jana dies of her brain tumor (recurrence...we slowly play a "beautiful death" over a 3- or 6-month period), and Kevin is again left bitter, angry. A good woman (in my version, it would have been Colleen, actually)...but maybe this is Amber or Mackenzie or even Heather...helps him rediscover his heart. But I'm also cool with writing the whole lot out, LOL.

- I cannot write about Lily. I have seen real cancer; living with it in my family now. It does not look like Lily's situation. Not one thing about Lily's situation rings true. The story DISGUSTS ME. For the first time in my life with this show, I fast forward through it. I cannot watch it. It angers me, and her blithe and chirpy spirit actually enrages me.

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by MarkH

I'm with you. Except...

- yeah, Billy Miller is all mugging and facial contortions, but I cannot deny I enjoy him. He captures my attention every second he is on screen...thus I can accept this redefinition of Billy. I accepted it--especially--as a reaction to losing the love of his life (Mac). I don't so much understand it now...but the way I have rationalized it (yes, I'm using that word, because I'm constantly accused of it) is that once Billy fell into self-destructive and self-loathing habits, getting Mac back wasn't enough to transform him away from the mess he had become. That actually happens in life.

Yes, but haven't they repeatedly tried to say it's all Jill's fault that Billy is what he is? I have no idea who is to blame for Billy's failings, or who the love of his life is supposed to be. When he came back they tried to make him fall for Lily. Then they pushed him towards Chloe. Then Mac. And now Victoria. I just think they make this up as they go along. I don't even think it's a redefinition so much as someone having fun showcasing him screwing up and making wisecracks. They seem to hate writing for younger men who are responsible -- this is viewed as boring, or not manly enough.

Are there "Stacy Haiduk fans"? I mean, a lot of us have liked some of what that actress has brought, but I can't imagine she has an organized fan brigade.

I think people say that because there was so much focus on her earlier this year, and lots of singling her out by name for her work, and all the campiness where she brought the cat to the Emmys and all the rest. I think someone at Y&R may have also went along with this, and assumed this dual role would work just because she's in it. But the role is unplayable.

always needing a man

Not at all.

She NEVER needed a man worse than any other Y&R woman until Jack Smith.

But Jack Smith ruins everything.

the Ashley we're seeing today (chirpy, chipper) as quite insane, locked in a tower of denial.

Yep.

It's ALL Eileen too.

I don't so much understand it now...but the way I have rationalized it (yes, I'm using that word, because I'm constantly accused of it) is that once Billy fell into self-destructive and self-loathing habits, getting Mac back wasn't enough to transform him away from the mess he had become. That actually happens in life.

Billy is a plot device to move story.

Miller isn't playing Billy the CHARACTER he's playing himself.

- Cane only shines for me with other men. I like him in confrontations with Billy.

Cane has NO right to EVER be self righteous with ANYONE especially those in The Chancellor Family no matter HOW much he may hate them.

If he won't die the LEAST he can be is humble.

- I like Kevin and Amber, but I would happily see both of them written out. In my vision of the show, we'd distill the cast down to about 18 players...maybe 9 of them are our "veterans", and the other 9 are WELL CAST next-generation members. Then, we play this group 4-5 days a week. We do lots of recaps and reactions...slow the pace down. Both GH and Days have cast members with over 200-episodes a year, and I truly believe that is a smart, strong way to go. I'd rather have this than the dispersed, unfocused canvas we have now.

Y&R USED to have balance but the vets are being ignored or written WAY OOC to prop entitled fanbases.

That paired with sweeps focused writing, racism, misogyny, ageism & over reliance on newbies has crippled Y&R.

Why do you think it is never coming back? Even over at AMC, there are some glimmers that it might rediscover at least a part of its identity.

AMC got a writing regime change with a writer (at least for a transition period) who was there during the show's glory days.

Y&R may never get a regime change and is stuck with writers who reeked similar havoc and damage on previous shows, a bloated writing staff, and writers who do not get the overall essence of the show and many of its characters.

There's hope and confidence that AMC can get a fresh new start with this new writing regime, there isn't any left with this current writing regime at Y&R, their chances have run up and the honeymoon period ended months ago.

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Alvin mentioned in the episode thread that even Branco is handing Y&R it's ass these days. Indeed, I'm shocked he slammed the writing.

But back to what’s really transpiring on our screen — if we’re to believe that Adam truly loves Sharon, as Y&R is demanding us to (we tell you what works, Y&R, not the other way around. Once you try to manipulate your audience, you’ve failed as a writer), he would tell her the truth about baby Faith because anything else is just pure evil and cruel. More irksome is how fast Adam and Sharon tied the knot. Well, at least my fast-forward button is getting some much-needed exercise because all the passive-aggressive plot references over the baby switch and Sharon’s special “connection” to Faith is just too much to endure. I bet even Ashley’s dead fetus realizes that Adam switched the babies after all the laborious exposition and foreshadowing involved in this non-suspenseful story. This contrived storyline is all based in plot — and not in character. Yep, I feel like I’m watching B&B, not Y&R these days, and vice versa. And that’s not a good thing.

Well, if we accept that Adam is flawed, and only "part good", then he did actually tell Sharon about Faith (when he thought they were both dying). There was no motivation to do that, other than guilt or love.

But since Adam is ultimately a ruthless survivor...when they both lived and she didn't remember...he decided he'd leave it at that. I still think, in his warped mind, Adam still feels he will "replace" Sharon's baby (just as he "replaced" Ashley's) by impregnating Sharon.

Indeed, after Adam is shot in the "who shot Adam" story, while Adam lies on his deathbed and Sharon is a prime suspect, I fully expect that Sharon will be carrying his child.

Indeed, after Adam is shot in the "who shot Adam" story, while Adam lies on his deathbed and Sharon is a prime suspect, I fully expect that Sharon will be carrying his child.

STOP THAT, MARK! You don't need to be feeding these horrible writers anymore stupid ideas.

The last thing Sharon needs is ANOTHER child.

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

AMC got a writing regime change with a writer (at least for a transition period) who was there during the show's glory days.

Y&R may never get a regime change and is stuck with writers who reeked similar havoc and damage on previous shows, a bloated writing staff, and writers who do not get the overall essence of the show and many of its characters.

There's hope and confidence that AMC can get a fresh new start with this new writing regime, there isn't any left with this current writing regime at Y&R, their chances have run up and the honeymoon period ended months ago.

To state it more directly, there is hope for AMC because ( a ) someone in control finally 'got' that something was wrong with the show, and ( b ) they have hired an interim from the "glory days". Y&R has lots of living writers from the glory days...

I'm not saying anything original here when I say that the problems will be resolved (IMO) when Hamner and Sheffer move on, Arena Bell retains HW/EP title, but leaves the plotting to legacy writers working with "fresh blood". What we need are folks like Alden or Smith or Sussman...someone of that ilk...in the second chair serving as de-facto HW.

At this point, I'm happy for Arena Bell to retreat and just be EP, but I don't think the Bell family will allow that to happen.

STOP THAT, MARK! You don't need to be feeding these horrible writers anymore stupid ideas.

The last thing Sharon needs is ANOTHER child.

LMAO. Trust me, nobody is taking ideas from me, LOL.

I think the people at Y&R really do not care about Y&R's history, or legacy, or identity. They have their ideas and their show and nothing else matters. But their show and their ideas are not very good.

To state it more directly, there is hope for AMC because ( a ) someone in control finally 'got' that something was wrong with the show, and ( b ) they have hired an interim from the "glory days". Y&R has lots of living writers from the glory days...

Yes, but few of them working at the show and none in the position to make any change at the show. And again, there might never be any change, this is all just wishful thinking at this point that we're hoping for desperately as fans.

At this point, I'm happy for Arena Bell to retreat and just be EP, but I don't think the Bell family will allow that to happen.

They did it for years with Scott, Alden, Smith, and Shaughnessy.

But as we've seen, Maria is a very arrogant woman who probably thinks there's very little going wrong in her writing, and I do believe this sentiment has trickled down to most of the writers on that team.

This regime seems to blame the fans for not being dumb enough to buy their horrible mistakes.

Edited January 8, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

May 2010: Mac keeps it secret that the baby is hers and Billy's, not Cane and Lily. Phyllis desperately hides the fact that she may be Victor's daughter from a long ago affair as she clings to Nick who's upset that Sharon has finally married Victor and is carrying his latest spawn. The Newmans and Abbots are in an uproar when Adam romances Traci and Billy and Nikki hit the sheets. Jack meets Emily's identical cousin. Jana becomes obsessed with Daniel's credit level after learning he might have a huge credit card debt.

November 2010: A serial killer is on the loose with Nina, Heather, and Traci all dead. A bat bites JT and he turns into a vampire. JT then bites Mac and Victoria, but he learns that Victoria is a succubus as the bat who bit him is Victor. Katherine has a stroke after learning Jill is pregnant with Murphy's baby. Lily starts acting all weird and is later seen levitating above her bed. Kevin and Sheila force everyone to accept their relationship as they have real love and the world should revolve around them.

May 2010: Mac keeps it secret that the baby is hers and Billy's, not Cane and Lily. Phyllis desperately hides the fact that she may be Victor's daughter from a long ago affair as she clings to Nick who's upset that Sharon has finally married Victor and is carrying his latest spawn. The Newmans and Abbots are in an uproar when Adam romances Traci and Billy and Nikki hit the sheets. Jack meets Emily's identical cousin. Jana becomes obsessed with Daniel's credit level after learning he might have a huge credit card debt.

November 2010: A serial killer is on the loose with Nina, Heather, and Traci all dead. A bat bites JT and he turns into a vampire. JT then bites Mac and Victoria, but he learns that Victoria is a succubus as the bat who bit him is Victor. Katherine has a stroke after learning Jill is pregnant with Murphy's baby. Lily starts acting all weird and is later seen levitating above her bed. Kevin and Sheila force everyone to accept their relationship as they have real love and the world should revolve around them.

LMAO. Original plots!

I've been kind over the years but I can no longer continue to hold back.

This show is total and utter sh!t. It is so far down in the gutter, it isn't even funny. Unless you're a HUGE (and I mean HUGE) Billy Miller/Stacy Haiduk/Michael Muhney fan, the show is absolute garbage. It is disgusting how they've violated characters like Ashley and Sharon for no higher purpose whatsoever. When I tuned in & saw Adam slobbering all over Sharon, the chick who's baby he stole for no good reason, I was revolted and as a writer myself, I cannot think of a dramatic payoff worth mercilessly torturing these two women in this way.

Everything that did (and did not) happen in the P3/P4/P87 story sucked ass, save the return of Tricia Cast as Nina. My God, this Chance person is just an absolute waste and in no way embodies what a real, core Y&R character is about- THIS is Nina's son, Kay's great grandson, and Jill's grandson? Who are they trying to kid?

The Winters- Who Are They? Oh, you mean Lily's dad and deaf (but not really) foster brother. They're just there to support Lily in her quest to have a baby in the midst of undergoing intense chemotherapy for OVARIAN CANCER!!?!? ARE YOU FU*KING KIDDING ME???!?? THIS IS HOW THEY HANDLE AN OVARIAN CANCER STORYLINE!?!? They can suck my balls. Seriously.

I am over it. Done. Finished. Until there is something worthwhile on that show, I'm over it. Until they give me some Jill, some Dru, some cohesive storytelling that makes sense, cat fights, characters CONFRONTING one another like they used to EVERY day. Characters on Y&R used to have balls, they generally didn't sneak around fu*king with people behind their backs- Nikki and Diane and Ashley and Jill and Nina and Brad and Jack and Victor and Katherine and Victoria and Drucilla and John and Mamie- they'd tell it to your fu*king face if they had an issue with you and have it out, no matter who you were. Those days are long gone and I'm afraid they're not coming back and never will. The show has been stripped of it's identity and that very identity is what compelled me to watch Y&R from 1993-2005. Watching it being ripped apart has been painful the last 4 years, but there was always enough of a glimmer of it's old self here & there to keep me watching, hoping things would get better.

But it's over. The Y&R I know & love is gone and it's not coming back. The sh!t show they're producing right now ain't the least bit worth my time.

I have ranted about Chance several months ago and I can see nothing has changed. It is difficult for me to believe that he has connections to 3 women who are all spitfires and he continues to be what? A 6-foot-tall boring, sexless, inept detective who wants to spend his evenings eating grilled cheese sandwiches with tomatoes. I mean, the food is really not the problem but where's the energy, the passion, and most of all, the LUST? He displays none of this. There was nothing sexless about Kay, Nina, and Jill (ESPECIALLY JILL) so I still don't understand where Chance's lack of energy, depth, and lust is coming from. Maybe his current storyline, as odd as it is, will finally give us more insight about him.

I have ranted about Chance several months ago and I can see nothing has changed. It is difficult for me to believe that he has connections to 3 women who are all spitfires and he continues to be what? A 6-foot-tall boring, sexless, inept detective who wants to spend his evenings eating grilled cheese sandwiches with tomatoes. I mean, the food is really not the problem but where's the energy, the passion, and most of all, the LUST? He displays none of this. There was nothing sexless about Kay, Nina, and Jill (ESPECIALLY JILL) so I still don't understand where Chance's lack of energy, depth, and lust is coming from. Maybe his current storyline, as odd as it is, will finally give us more insight about him.

I'm hoping this plot is to get him off the force. In a non-cop role, maybe with some bitterness, he might turn into something vaguely more interesting. I suspect Driscoll could pull it off...maybe...but right now the writing for him is truly, truly bizarre.

I wish he, and Mac, could sort of manifest their PTSD (Iraq and Darfur)...and eventually help one another with it. It doesn't help that Chance REALLY should be only about 21 years old.

I'm hoping this plot is to get him off the force. In a non-cop role, maybe with some bitterness, he might turn into something vaguely more interesting. I suspect Driscoll could pull it off...maybe...but right now the writing for him is truly, truly bizarre.

I wish he, and Mac, could sort of manifest their PTSD (Iraq and Darfur)...and eventually help one another with it. It doesn't help that Chance REALLY should be only about 21 years old.

I've never been able to buy that he's in his early 20's. The writers seem to display him as being somewhat older such as 26, 27, or 28. I have a hard time seeing him as a 21-year-old.

I don't think Mark means he IS in that age, he means Chance is supposed to be in that age range, instead of where he is now.

Even though he was born before Billy, Billy was SORASED to a older age range that Chance was.