How is Victoria a "lost soul"? If she isn't happy with with a gorgeous, generally supportive husband, and a child, she's going to be found with a ticcy twerp who treats women like garbage and neglects his daughter? And don't we have enough women on this show who are put into relationships only so we can see the men grunt and bump chests? How can she "rescue" Billy when no woman on this show is allowed to do anything but be put under a man's thumb?

Heinle and Miller have so little chemistry with most of their love interests, I wouldn't mind seeing them lumped together, but then that would probably mean JT would go, or be destroyed to prop Billy.

Amen.

I guess Victoria is a lost soul because she hasn't had any personality or purpose on this show since Heather Tom left. Looking back, Heather made the right move, I don't think she would like what Victoria's become, though, part of that was trying to write to Amelia's abilities, and it still hasn't worked.

They would probably turn JT into a child molester and have Billy "rescue" Reed as JT is about to molest him, and Billy ends up being the "hero" Victoria falls for.

I don't put anything past this perverse and plot driven writing team.

BINGO.

How is Victoria a "lost soul"? If she isn't happy with with a gorgeous, generally supportive husband, and a child, she's going to be found with a ticcy twerp who treats women like garbage and neglects his daughter? And don't we have enough women on this show who are put into relationships only so we can see the men grunt and bump chests? How can she "rescue" Billy when no woman on this show is allowed to do anything but be put under a man's thumb?

Heinle and Miller have so little chemistry with most of their love interests, I wouldn't mind seeing them lumped together, but then that would probably mean JT would go, or be destroyed to prop Billy.

I can't really answer how she became a lost soul...but that she has become one seems clear. She's made consistently awful choices...from marrying Brad (in part) as an act of rebellion, to sleeping with Deacon. Now she is even professionally directionless. When you put it all together, I assume we're supposed to see that she has lost her way.

Since Billy has clearly done so also, the idea of them finding healing in one another (ala Phick -- don't gag) is intriguing to me. I also find Heinle has more spark in her eyes with Miller than with anyone else.

The plot reasons to put Billy and Victoria together are more enticing...TGVN would NOT be pleased, and JT-Billy have a long antagonistic history (over Mac and Brittany). Wasn't it at JT's house/party that Billy got drunk and almost died of exposure outside?

I'm not sure JT has long-term viability with this regime, anyway. Since they killed off his one true love (IMO), I don't see a lot of investment in him.

I can't really answer how she became a lost soul...but that she has become one seems clear. She's made consistently awful choices...from marrying Brad (in part) as an act of rebellion, to sleeping with Deacon. Now she is even professionally directionless. When you put it all together, I assume we're supposed to see that she has lost her way.

I think they don't know how to write for the character (like most of the characters on this show), and the fact that the actress playing the role isn't anywhere near the powerhouse Heather Tom was, well, that just makes it worse.

And let's not kid ourselves, Victoria is very much an afterthought and considered a secondary character by this writing team and Latham before them. This is not the Victoria many of us grew up with and loved with Heather Tom in the role. This character has been neglected, ignored, and poorly developed for YEARS now, it's criminal. As I said before, part of that is Amelia, but the writers don't even try.

Since Billy has clearly done so also, the idea of them finding healing in one another (ala Phick -- don't gag) is intriguing to me. I also find Heinle has more spark in her eyes with Miller than with anyone else.

The plot reasons to put Billy and Victoria together are more enticing...TGVN would NOT be pleased, and JT-Billy have a long antagonistic history (over Mac and Brittany). Wasn't it at JT's house/party that Billy got drunk and almost died of exposure outside?

Chances are, with your idea, this writing regime would pace this story so fast that no relationship between Billy and Victoria would be developed and we'd be left scratching our heads as to why these people are in a relationship, and again, I see no chemistry between the actors.

Why do Billy and Victor need Billy and Victoria being in a relationship to cause conflict? There's a host of other ways to get that, and why the hell does Billy need yet another adversary anyway? I'm sick and tired about the way this writing regime overexposes this character and refuses to acknowledge his true past.

Also, will they ever acknowledge Billy's past with alcohol? If they do soon, it's already too late. The planning on this show is so atrocious.

I'm not sure JT has long-term viability with this regime, anyway. Since they killed off his one true love (IMO), I don't see a lot of investment in him.

But Mark, couldn't this be said about almost every character on the show right now? Who are they really invested in? I don't even think much investment is in the characters they overuse a lot like the quad or Billy. These people (the "characters") don't seem like characters anymore, they seem like one-note caricatures.

I'm all for paring down the cast, but this regime seems intent on making it bigger and then killing off core legacy characters in "shocking events." They cannot write a tightly nit ensemble show, so I'm really lost when it comes to their reasoning.

Edited January 4, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

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- Why were most of Lily's children white? Did she adopt them? Why did she adopt white children? So confusing...

.

Really Mark really, What I have been saying all this time about CK & her blackness. I bet that CK told them if they put one darkie in her hands she'll drop them. She probably did the paper bag test on each kid.

I think they don't know how to write for the character (like most of the characters on this show), and the fact that the actress playing the role isn't anywhere near the powerhouse Heather Tom was, well, that just makes it worse.

And let's not kid ourselves, Victoria is very much an afterthought and considered a secondary character by this writing team and Latham before them. This is not the Victoria many of us grew up with and loved with Heather Tom in the role. This character has been neglected, ignored, and poorly developed for YEARS now, it's criminal. As I said before, part of that is Amelia, but the writers don't even try.

VICTORIA NEWMAN being an unemployed, married to JT, Art Foundation running, jealous of COLLEEN, sleeping with scum like DEACON, BILLY ABBOTT sexing, Reliquary Gluing Earth Mother?

Whatever Maria.

Chances are, with your idea, this writing regime would pace this story so fast that no relationship between Billy and Victoria would be developed and we'd be left scratching our heads as to why these people are in a relationship

Adam/Heather, Billy/Lily, Cane/Chloe, Devon/Tyra, Neil/Karen, Nikki/David, Victor/Sabrina, Colleen/Daniel, Sharon/Billy, Paul/Maggie, Gloria/Alistair, Paul/Nikki, Jill/JiMin & Gloria/River.

Why do Billy and Victor need Billy and Victoria being in a relationship to cause conflict? There's a host of other ways to get that

Their last names being NEWMAN & ABBOTT is enough.

and why the hell does Billy need yet another adversary anyway? I'm sick and tired about the way this writing regime overexposes this character and refuses to acknowledge his true past.

Exactly.

Also, will they ever acknowledge Billy's past with alcohol? If they do soon, it's already too late. The planning on this show is so atrocious.

This is the same show that barely lets him do anything significant with his MOTHER, BROTHER & NEPHEW cause of CHLOE & CANE.

Who are they really invested in?

Nick, Billy, Adam, Patty Jane, Chloe, The Scoobies, Giggly Heffa, CKLily & Cane.

These people (the "characters") don't seem like characters anymore, they seem like one-note caricatures.

The vets do too.

All of them besides Walton, Maitland, Cast & Case are sleepwalking or extremely OTT.

so I'm really lost when it comes to their reasoning.

A check is a check.

I bet that CK told them if they put one darkie in her hands she'll drop them. She probably did the paper bag test on each kid.

Edited January 4, 201015 yr by DeeeDee

You think they made a deal with CK about Malcolm coming back dark. She is allow to have white skinned kids in a dream.

Edited January 4, 201015 yr by MoTheGreat

I can't really answer how she became a lost soul...but that she has become one seems clear. She's made consistently awful choices...from marrying Brad (in part) as an act of rebellion, to sleeping with Deacon. Now she is even professionally directionless. When you put it all together, I assume we're supposed to see that she has lost her way.

Since Billy has clearly done so also, the idea of them finding healing in one another (ala Phick -- don't gag) is intriguing to me. I also find Heinle has more spark in her eyes with Miller than with anyone else.

The plot reasons to put Billy and Victoria together are more enticing...TGVN would NOT be pleased, and JT-Billy have a long antagonistic history (over Mac and Brittany). Wasn't it at JT's house/party that Billy got drunk and almost died of exposure outside?

I'm not sure JT has long-term viability with this regime, anyway. Since they killed off his one true love (IMO), I don't see a lot of investment in him.

How will Victoria ever grow as a character if her plot choices are based on Victor's reactions? I guess when Victoria is around 40, I don't care about whether or not Victor is upset. I think the Victor/Billy rivalry is a bit pathetic, Billy looks like a brat and Victor looks like a bully. This would also showcase Y&R's deep misogyny, if Victoria chooses to debase herself for Billy after the horrible way he has treated her over the past 6 months, and for no real reason.

Has Victoria lost her way for plot reasons or is it because almost all women on this show are generally aimless and pathetic?

Since Billy has treated so many women like garbage, I'm not sure how he would be any different with Victoria. It just seems like another of the show's gimmicks to me. Put Billy with a woman he's been vile towards, because a man treating a woman like trash is hot, it's what she wants. And watch Billy bare his teeth and smirk on cue as he tells Victor that he's nailed the Newman daughter.

I think JT is a viable character, far more than most of the show's pets. He's one of the only decent men in his age group, and has chemistry with almost anyone.

I'm just tired of the show shoving Billy at various women, none of these relationships work for me. And the last thing Victoria needs is a contrived relationship which will be all about her father. She's already immature enough as it is.

Edited January 4, 201015 yr by CarlD2

I think the Victor/Billy rivalry is a bit pathetic, Billy looks like a brat and Victor looks like a bully. This would also showcase Y&R's deep misogyny, if Victoria chooses to debase herself for Billy after the horrible way he has treated her over the past 6 months, and for no real reason.

Pretty much.

Has Victoria lost her way for plot reasons or is it because almost all women on this show are generally aimless and pathetic?

Jill will be running around like a chicken with its head cut off to keep Gloria away from Tucker.

Watch.

I think JT is a viable character, far more than most of the show's pets. He's one of the only decent men in his age group, and has chemistry with almost anyone.

The writing is horrible but Thad's really grown.

Too bad Daytime doesn't do heroes.

I'm just tired of the show shoving Billy at various women, none of these relationships work for me.

Exactly why it was a mistake to kill Jerry Douglas.

He would have grounded Miller.

Beth does too but TPTB will never put her back on contract.

And the last thing Victoria needs is a contrived relationship which will be all about her father. She's already immature enough as it is.

Victoria has The Jill Problem.

Useless without a man.

You think they made a deal with CK about Malcolm coming back dark. She is allow to have white skinned kids in a dream.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Wasn't I saying in last weeks thread not to expect her to have black children? I was joking, but I guess I was right. Light skinned or not, Lily the character is full black so her child should looked mixed. Now if she was half white, then I could buy her having a child that turned out looking completely white.

Can't people just leave town on Y&R anymore?

Karen and Tyra did.

I am not feeling Malcolm Winslow.

I don't mind him. I think so far he's doing a decent job, but I'm actively refusing to compare him to Shamar in my mind. I'm not sure anyone could fill those shoes.

DeeeDee, that made me sad about daytime not doing heroes. But you're right

I don't mind him. I think so far he's doing a decent job, but I'm actively refusing to compare him to Shamar in my mind. I'm not sure anyone could fill those shoes.

This is where strong writing would make a difference. Shemar was an OK actor but where he really worked was charisma, sex appeal, playfulness. There was not a big focus on characterization.

If they somehow manage to write a strong character and story for Malcolm, then Darius might do alright.

that made me sad about daytime not doing heroes. But you're right

Heroes & Heroines don't exist anymore.

There are just TPTB agendas & fanbase justifications.

VICTORIA marginalizing Billy's near death experience?

Wow Maria.

Contrivance aside Kristoff & Eileen look good together.