Oh please, B&B has been getting progressively worse for at least 10 years now, with or without those people.

Y&R might have needed some tweaking in late 2005, but it didn't need an overhauling. The show was still very consistent and held true to its identity, that cannot be said anymore.

Just because they weren't good at B&B, it doesn't negate the ears of service they gave to Y&R.

Don't make me laugh. Kay Alden was very generously paid for her "years of service". It wasn't volunteering. And yes, she was awful on Y&R.

Don't make me laugh. Kay Alden was very generously paid for her "years of service". It wasn't volunteering. And yes, she was awful on Y&R.

My point was, B&B was crap before she joined and it will be crap after she leaves.

I'm not even advocating for Alden in particular to come back, what about giving a former longtime staff writer a chance? The whole writing staff needs to be purged anyway. I'd simply keep Slater and Esser for their historical ties, everyone else can go.

I can expect that to work, and how! Just because these recent choices were appalling, it doesn't prove a thing. I am sure there are many writers, inside and outside of daytime, who would know how to write this show and who would be more than glad to honour its history. But they will probably never get a chance to do so.

Of course there are great writers who could improve the show, but that will never happen. We won't get a true soap newcomer who is actually a fan. Especially if they aren't white. Just forget it. I don't look at this as a valid option because it just won't happen. Soaps don't want newcomers or minorities writing for any of these shows.

Safe/"safe" choice is another thing that killed these shows (e.g. We need to bring in McTavish to write AMC again because her first stint was good. Look how that turned out.).

McTavish's first stuff wasn't all that and to bring her back to AMC after how well she did at OLTL and GH shows someone is smoking more crack than Whitney. I don't think that's a fair comparison to the Y&R writers. IMO, both Alden and Smith had more successes than someone like McTavish ever did. Plus Alden was with the show for so long. I do think she would be valuable in some capacity. I know creating interesting stories wasn't her strong point, but I can see her being a great help to a new writer. A great transitional HW.

My point was, B&B was crap before she joined and it will be crap after she leaves.

I'm not even advocating for Alden in particular to come back, what about giving a former longtime staff writer a chance? The whole writing staff needs to be purged anyway. I'd simply keep Slater and Esser for their historical ties, everyone else can go.

Perhaps it was, but it reached new lows when she came on board.

I really don't think B&B reached new lows with her. It was at least something different. And I really don't think the show was ever more dull than it was say 2004-2007.

I'm not even sure if the Bill Bell structure is that complex. Have strong families. Have interesting, layered relationships between couples and families. Watch them struggle with themselves and with those around them. Bell managed to do this for over 20 years, even when he had to completely overhaul his cast halfway through.

It takes work to write this, because it is a general respect for the underpinnings of drama that Sheffer and Hamner sneer at, but it shouldn't be so difficult if someone tries. Instead, we get all these "shocking" cliches which are rushed through in the blink of an eye, no fallout, no purpose, nothing, and to boot we also get dull couples, pathetic women, unpleasant men, no friendships, or families, beyond the most grudging moments, and the lamest "mystery" stories possible. It's just rinse and repeat of the same old stuff, while the foundation is worn to nothing.

Pretty much.

I don't think they are the end all, but when you have three HWs and none have any history with the show, how can you expect that to work? I don't think Alden or Smith should've even been let go. When LML was brought on she should've been equal with one or both of them. Giving her the reigns entirely was clearly a disaster. Same with the current team. There is nobody there who understands the show or these characters. Even from a production stand point. I don't think Alden and Smith are the only options for HW, but probably the safest choices. You must consider who will most likely have the biggest imput in these decisions--BARBARA BLOOM. What soap opera does she come from? Port Charles. Do you really think those ABC rejects are going to work at Y&R? After this experiment with MAB failed she'll go back to what she knows which means another ABC writer.

Whoever the choose I feel needs to be a true Y&R fan and they do need Alden or Smith as a Co-HW. I'd prefer Alden because I think she had problems coming up with interesting stories, but she wrote the characters well. I think she could reign in a new writer enough to keep it Y&R-esque and make it work.

Exactly.

Soaps don't want newcomers or minorities writing for any of these shows.

Bingo.

Correction She claimed she never smoked crack. It was cocaine with weed

Of course there are great writers who could improve the show, but that will never happen. We won't get a true soap newcomer who is actually a fan. Especially if they aren't white. Just forget it. I don't look at this as a valid option because it just won't happen. Soaps don't want newcomers or minorities writing for any of these shows.

McTavish's first stuff wasn't all that and to bring her back to AMC after how well she did at OLTL and GH shows someone is smoking more crack than Whitney. I don't think that's a fair comparison to the Y&R writers. IMO, both Alden and Smith had more successes than someone like McTavish ever did. Plus Alden was with the show for so long. I do think she would be valuable in some capacity. I know creating interesting stories wasn't her strong point, but I can see her being a great help to a new writer. A great transitional HW.

^ That exchange is one of the many reasons I love Whitney.

LOL She says she still has urges LOL

^ That exchange is one of the many reasons I love Whitney.

I come in here to talk about Y&R from this past week and as usual it's about the behind the scenes shoulda coulda woulda's.

I know what you mean. And if people didn't think I was going to give out warnings, they were wrong. The past few weeks were pretty good, but this week some people slipped up. It's a shame. Let's do better next week, guys.

Thanks Toups.

I know what you mean. And if people didn't think I was going to give out warnings, they were wrong. The past few weeks were pretty good, but this week some people slipped up. It's a shame. Let's do better next week, guys.

I really don't think B&B reached new lows with her. It was at least something different. And I really don't think the show was ever more dull than it was say 2004-2007.

EXACTLY! B&B may not be perfect now, but I'll take anything from the Brad Bell/Kay Alden regime (yes, even Nick & Katie, Beth's insta-illness and sea demon Storm) over anything from 2005-2007. It all went downhill when Amber and Deacon left and Morgan was written out to make way for Taylor's God-awful resurrection story.

but that seems to have been more about the legacy team still cresting on the fumes of Bill Bell...not creating anything new or worthwhile.

You gotta be joking.

Every time they create a new character or try to take an old character in a new direction, 90% of the people on here go screaming "WE ONLY WANT THE VETS! THAT PERSON IS ACTING OUT OF CHARACTER!"

From that I get the impression that the people who post on here don't want anything new. They'd certainly never stand for entire families being written out and new families created...even though the great and perfect Bill Bell did so himself.